- This topic has 28 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 17 years, 5 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
In another thread (discussing of all things the movie \”Enough\” with JLo) an interesting topic came up. I’m going to paste a slightly edited version of my response from that thread, in hopes of initiating an interesting discussion on the subject.
quote \”jburtonpdx\:You know the fact is that even with a restraining order the person is still in danger. The cops cant sit there and babysit forever, recently here in Ohio there is a case where an ex-wife was found dead with her ex-husband also dead. It was a murder/suicide, and the police had even been called during the initial fight. She had a restraining order.jburtonpdx – Great points. In fact, this type of situation is precisely why someone who has been convicted of domestic violence is prohibited from owning a firearm in this country. It is a Federal Offense to be in possession of a firearm if you are subject to a restraining order, or have been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence (18 U.S.C. Section 922(g)(8 and 9)). Additionally when that law was passed, it did not \”grandfather in\” those who’d been convicted prior to its enactment – Everyone who’d been convicted of domestic violence previously was required to forfeit their guns. Interestingly, this included a handful of police officers – But I digress …
This raises an interesting point – Common sense tells us that the police can’t be everywhere at once. Even under the best of circumstances, if you or someone else is able to call police just prior to or during a violent attack, it will in all likelihood have ended by the time the police arrive. Let me go on record by stating that I very much admire and respect LE. I know some officers who are great people. However, I personally believe that it’s not so much their duty to protect me as an individual, but to catch BG’s and to protect communities by preventing crime by their presence, and by doing their part to enforce legal ramifications for those who are caught (i.e., making arrests).
Interestingly, high courts have actually stated that individuals are not guaranteed protection from the police (Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981 ñ Google this for a disturbing story). Here’s one of many good reads on the subject (although it does do a bit of cop bashing, which I’m not a fan of):
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/kasler-protection.html#4
I for one, feel strongly that is solely MY responsibility to protect myself and my loved ones ñ Perhaps under certain circumstances, even the general public (e.g., when happening upon the perpetration of a violent crime). Perhaps some of you agree, and this is why so many people are learning Krav (or any SD system) and buying / carrying firearms (or both!).
I look forward to you comments – Especially if you disagree.
Train hard, stay safe!
KJJeff,good post.On the other board we post on there are discussions on \”the myth of the 1st responders\”that you may want to look up.You’ll like it.I very much agree with you on this.I’m not sure where our society stands on this.As A lot of our laws kind of pigeon hole us.I hope katrina and N.O. kind of opened up a lot of peoples eyes.In the end,it comes down to personal responsibility.I am responsible for my safety.I am responsible for the people i accept into my life and i don’t let anybody near me until after i’ve seen em’ drink.
Re:
quote \”unstpabl1\:In the end,it comes down to personal responsibility.I am responsible for my safety.I am responsible for the people i accept into my life and i don’t let anybody near me until after i’ve seen em’ drink.Thanks Mike
Agree 100% – And that last bit … Priceless, and great advice!!!
I responded on the other thread before I found this one….
Anyway, I agree with you completely. There are many officers in the Krav class I go to and they are all good people. Very dedicated to there job and if they could I am sure they would do anything to protect another human being. It seems to be in there nature, very helpful people.
Still there is just no feasible way to rely on police to keep us safe. It is a practical impossibility. We could not pay for enough of them and if we could statistically there is going to be at least one bad apple in the bunch, then we would need protection from that one.
The only solution is to be prepared to take care of ourselves. Just like we need to have supplies in our homes for emergencies, we need supplies in our personal arsenal to protect us when we are standing in line at the fast food joint that the bad guy has randomley chose as his next target location. Or the convenience store (ask those guys what they think about self defense, there is a trend here where they seem to be getting shot even when they comply with the bad guy).
Again, this is not a shot at LEOs. Of the ones I know most of them are great people, good attitudes, honest, and hardworking folks. Its just a good idea to be able to take care of yourself so you can survive a bad situation, make a report to those good LEO folks, and get whatever bad guys bugged you arrested (if they are not in the hospital after that encounter with a Krav Student 😉 😀 )
When it comes to the safety of my family I only trust two people; myself and my wife. Frankly, it’s NOT the cops job to protect YOU from harm. It’s the cops job to protect \”the public\” as a whole, not the individuals. Cops are for investigating crimes and (hopefully) catching the perp, NOT protecting you from being the victim. It’s as simple as that in my mind.
There are just not enough LEO’s out there to protect each and every individual. Some in the public do not see things that way, and put the responsibility onto someone else. The posters on this forum, in my mind, are the opposite. They are taking responsibility, and could very likely, in certain instances, save the life of those that don’t. So people, be proud that you do take the responsibility and as stated on this forum numerous times….Train Hard and Stay Safe!!!
Agree with everything I’ve read so far. Law enforcement is just that; police are not bodyguards. Now, it’s another story if they don’t respond when called. When I was in college, I waited tables ’til about midnight and (being young, naive and indestructible) walked back to my dorm after my shift ended. Got harassed one night by 3 guys coming out of a bar. I tried to ignore the loudmouth, until he started calling me a stuck-up c***. I wisely told him to STFU; he got about a foot from me and shouted that he’d hit girls before and had no problem doing it again. I ran across the street to a 7-11 and called 911; the guy stayed across the street shouting at me (his buddies were trying to get him to leave). I had to call twice before a cop showed up, nearly 10 minutes later.
I learned from it. That it’s massively unsafe to be walking by myself that late, first off. Second, mouthing off to an obviously drunk guy looking to pick on a 5’1\” girl is not particularly helpful. Third, sound a whole lot more hysterical if I ever need to call 911 again.
On the restraining order issue… I used to work at a DV shelter/counseling center, and basically a restraining order is only as good as the enforcement of the order. Someone who stalks or beats up women is not necessarily going to be deterred by the mere thought of \”getting in trouble\” for violating the order. An alarm system, good neighbors, a legal firearm and knowing how to use it is much better protection.
Yea I think that the police are a good back up, but they are not right there waiting for soemthing bad to happen. I have a responce time of zero seconds. This is why I take Krav. A few years back I was a wrestler and felt confident defending myself if neceaasry. I found my real fighting skills woefully lacking and with a new wife there was more at stake. Krav Maga is just like a seat belt. It just might save your life or the life of someone you love.
As I see it, if you’re attacked and there’s a vigilant cop just down the street by the time he gets there it may be too late and the damage done. That’s the best case scenario.
kravjeff, just a clarification and a question to your original post, based around the fact that \”possession\” has many different manifestations in a legal sense. Do they have to relinquish ownership of the gun, or is it simply that they are not able to carry it on their person?
I would agree, i am responsible for my own safety. I guess that’s why we are all doing Krav Maga! 😈
_________________
GiantkillerRe:
quote \”KravMDjeff\:kravjeff, just a clarification and a question to your original post, based around the fact that \”possession\” has many different manifestations in a legal sense. Do they have to relinquish ownership of the gun, or is it simply that they are not able to carry it on their person?I’m no attorney (tho I did stay in a Holiday Inn … Never Mind … 😆 )
My understanding of the statute is that they literally had to give up ownership. In fact, it’s not just ownership. My understanding is that they not even legally \”allowed\” to \”hold\” a firearm or ammunition, with the possible exception of an LEO service weapon See below (of this I’m not sure). In fact, I think it is also true that if one were to \”transfer possession\” (hold this for me would you?\”) they would also be guilty of a crime (of this I am also less sure – someone please correct me if I’m wrong).
Here’s an article reporting on local (Denver) police who ended up with desk jobs because of the 1994 change in the law:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/january97/police_1-9.html
This link http://www.abuseofpower.info/GunLaw.htm appears to uphold this, though while biased, says it had little impact on law enforcement (tell that to the officers who lost their jobs!)
Quite honestly, I don’t know where this stands today – And a brief search on the ‘net did not reveal anything definitive.
Finally; I haven’t read this entire page, but it looks like a good reference – first hit on Google.
http://www.i2i.org/main/article.php?article_id=592
Best,
KJjburtonpdx posted on the other thread:
\”my view is that the safety and security of myself and my family is my personal responsability. I take this very seriously.
I have always studied some sort of fighting and have encouraged my family to do so as well. Currently both my wife and older daughter are taking Krav along with me. My youngest just started TaeKwonDo (she is not old enough or big enough for Krav yet and I know the instructors where she is going, its actually a good school and she will be taught well).
Just like the Police cant be everywhere, neither can I. So the best thing for me to do is to equip my family to take care of themselves. This is something not done in this country much anymore. I think if we did, much of the violent crime in this country would disappear.
Personaly I also have a concealed handgun license and my wife is currently applying for one. I dont stress as much about things when I am prepared.\”
Most of you probably read this on the other thread, but anted it here because I think there is some great points and wisdom in what he said. My kids are also currently in MA (also too young for krav, but the system they train in teaches SD and even some Krav techniques, and is taught by Krav instructors / students). Also, I talked my wife to starting as well. Finally, I too carry – 24/7, and am aorking on my wife for same.
It’s a bad world out there – Great to be part of a community of like minded, good people!
Stay safe, train hard!
Jeffi have almost never relied on cops, with one exception. i started kickboxing (full contact) when i was 15 and have done it on and off since. i know it’s not a complete fighting system and it ‘s a sport and not really self defense, but it’s better than nothing and have filled in the blanks from some streetfights i’ve been involved in. my 2 oldest kids now practice judo, and my wife and i are enrolled in an MMA school now mostly learning thai boxing and dabbling in submission grappling, again it’s better than nothing.
before i moved i had a group of 4 really good friends. we grew up together in our neighborhood. they were the ones i relied on, we never needed cops.i knew i could trust each and everyone of them with my life and i knew would never falter me, and always have my back in any situation, and they knew the same about me. it was a brotherly thing and we were always there to look out for eachother, no matter where we went or where we were, the same rules still applied. i will never forget the best advice i ever got: my dad once told me\”you see all these guys, they’re all low lifes, but one thing i’ve learned in life is that sometimes the best people you trust with your life are lowlifes.\” so i put my trust in them, and never once regretted it.
\”It’s a bad world out there – Great to be part of a community of like minded, good people! \”
I dont think so, I think its a good world, and most people are good.
Its just those few jerks out there that make it seem like its bad (and honestly, if anything bad happens, the press does everything they can to make it seem bigger so they can sell more commercials). Man I dont like the media….
Anyway what I want to get out there is that taking on the safety and security of your family as a personal responsability actually makes it even better. I find that just like keeping track of my checking account allows me to not stress over money, keeping track of my families safety takes some of that concern away as well. Knowing that if some poor idiot were to try something on my wife he simply would get the crud beat out of him is actually a comforting thought to me…. 😆
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
