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Re: "downing a charging bull"?
Get out of the way. That, or I saw this looney toons once where Bugs was bull fighting and he had this anvil hidden behind the red cloth….
What every one is saying is that it is always prefered to avoid or difuse a conflict before it starts. Can this not be done? You say he’s going to do this again, how do you know?
Krav Maga is not only about fighting but also safety… knowing your surroundings, possible threats, profiling your attacker and understanding his mindset. Sometimes conflict can be avoided if you have a good understanding of these things.
Re: "downing a charging bull"?
quote aristotelian:Nothing vauge about it. Guy’s running at full speed toward me. I can’t match his strenght.. so I have to use his own momemntum against him. What kind of detail do you want? The color of the floor? The tempeture of the room? To what side does he part his hair? He looked like he wanted to tackle me until, 3 other people grabbed on to him.Don’t you just love sarcasm when someones asking you for help:angry:
Reread Don’s post and tone down the tude when asking someone else for help, probably be a good start at not getting 350lbers pissed off enough to charge you. :dunno:
People asked you for context so they could give you a rational answer as to the response. Pretty common for intelligent bpeople to ask Who, What, why, where before they try to figure out How. Also all alluded to getting the heck offline, which is common sense 101. Don a Force Instructor, took the time to ask you to reframe your question, so valuable discussion could be passed and all could learn, instead of the normal bs if I he does this, then I do that.
Instead of taking the time to answer the question further which a bunch of posters seconded, you come back with a smartassed post. Maybe, you don’t realize how many instructors responded to you. Not just Krav instructors, but Force instructors LEO, Military. At the very least 3.Their answers are going to take into consideraration things like Legal use of force
You question was vague, whether you think it was the most brilliant and most common sense one ever asked. Why is he charging you? To kill you, to intimidate you. to put you in your place, is he alone, with friends? Is he armed/ are you? Is there a weapon accessable, Is it legal to use one? Is he coming from the front, the back, the side? if you go down will the buddies jump in. Is he charging high or low or mid. leading with the head or shoulder or just trying to tie you up
Normally, i end my posts with “hope this helps”, but for this one ” Don’t really care” seems more fitting:banghead:
Re: "downing a charging bull"?
They took the time to answer with plattitudes. The question was not vauge, “charging bull” is a classic scenerio. Asking someone on here does not preclude me asking someone in person either…. I was not being a smart-ass I was illistrating a point. Answers without substancce annoy me. Plattitudes annoy me. I thot Krav Maga was all about being practical.. If you have detailed questions please do ask. I was asking about a general principle.. I thought Krav Maga was about learning sympol principles (teqniques) that one can apply to a wide range of situations.
From the responses I have received on here, evidently not. From the responses on this thread, one can only deduce that each Krav Maga comabtive can only apply to a very specific kind of situation. That’s not how Krav Maga advertises itself and it is not what I am looking for.
Have fun with your plattitudes.
Re: "downing a charging bull"?
Looks like aristotelian is not the only one posting a “smartass” answer here. Why can’t you guys keep it civil?
Re: "downing a charging bull"?
quote BradM:Looks like aristotelian is not the only one posting a “smartass” answer here. Why can’t you guys keep it civil?Really Brad, is that how you see it?
How much time do guys spend on here trying to help. Not just to promote krav, but to actually help. Many times the questions get answered and you never hear so much of a thanks.
Tell me you don’t get this posters attitude. Yet your going to call me out about being civil. I was civil and even helpful. I even spelled out the questions for him and why they might be important. My post are always civil, but are not above calling someone on their crap, including you on this post.
I will spend as much time as it takes to help anyone who asks, with the right attitude. Don asked for specifics. Don is a Force trainer as well as an active duty LEO. Kirsten and Steve Tuna seconded it, both are Force trainers and active duty LEO’s. How was this met..oh yeah Whadda want The color of Da Floor? Or da tempature outside…
Sorry Brad, I wish the op well, but he hasn’t shown the common sense nor curtisey(SP) to warrant any future help. He can vent, but he would’ve got a ton of great advice had he been able to keep his ego in check. Probably the reason the 350lber enraged charged him in the first place
Re: "downing a charging bull"?
quote aristotelian:They took the time to answer with plattitudes. The question was not vauge, “charging bull” is a classic scenerio. Asking someone on here does not preclude me asking someone in person either…. I was not being a smart-ass I was illistrating a point. Answers without substancce annoy me. Plattitudes annoy me. I thot Krav Maga was all about being practical.. If you have detailed questions please do ask. I was asking about a general principle.. I thought Krav Maga was about learning sympol principles (teqniques) that one can apply to a wide range of situations.From the responses I have received on here, evidently not. From the responses on this thread, one can only deduce that each Krav Maga comabtive can only apply to a very specific kind of situation. That’s not how Krav Maga advertises itself and it is not what I am looking for.
Have fun with your plattitudes.
And we gave you self defense 101..get off line and asked for more specifics…Sorry our answers and questions annoyed you. Good luck in your journey
Re: "downing a charging bull"?
in a general situation of someone charging at you…
1. get out of the way
2. defensive front kick but his weight/velocity and your timing will play a great deal on your success of this technique
3. if he grabs you, sprawl but his weight/velocity and your timing will play a great deal on your success of this technique
4. if he grabs you and you are falling backwards, maybe a sacrifice throw? also known as Captan Kirk throw but his weight/velocity and your timing will play a great deal on your success of this technique-Smart ass reply insert here-
Re: "downing a charging bull"?
quote aristotelian:They took the time to answer with plattitudes. The question was not vauge, “charging bull” is a classic scenerio. Asking someone on here does not preclude me asking someone in person either…. I was not being a smart-ass I was illistrating a point. Answers without substancce annoy me. Plattitudes annoy me. I thot Krav Maga was all about being practical.. If you have detailed questions please do ask. I was asking about a general principle.. I thought Krav Maga was about learning sympol principles (teqniques) that one can apply to a wide range of situations.From the responses I have received on here, evidently not. From the responses on this thread, one can only deduce that each Krav Maga comabtive can only apply to a very specific kind of situation. That’s not how Krav Maga advertises itself and it is not what I am looking for.
Have fun with your plattitudes.
Honest answer:
-ANY self defense is as much about situational awareness as it is about “kickin’ ass”.-
Avoid this person.
Vacate the area hastily if/when you come in contact with him.
If tactical retreat is not an option defend yourself with all tools at your disposal.
Step to the side and trip him.
Kick his groin.
Reach up and jam both thumbs in his eyes.
If his head is down, knee him in the face or guillitine-choke him.If you want to learn Krav Maga, find a Krav Maga gym. I simply cannot teach you what you want to know in a text format. Yes, there are many techniques that could work for you, but I have no clue how tall you are, what shape you are in, what martial arts/fighting experience you have, or how far you are willing to go to defend yourself. I put “Just kidding” after suggesting that you get a gun, but I carry my .40cal just in case Krav ain’t enough.
I’m not being a smart-ass, I’m trying to give you solid advice.
Re: "downing a charging bull"?
P.S. Looks like you have a school in Marietta. I’m sure that they could help.
Re: "downing a charging bull"?
quote aristotelian:They took the time to answer with plattitudes. The question was not vauge, “charging bull” is a classic scenerio. Asking someone on here does not preclude me asking someone in person either…. I was not being a smart-ass I was illistrating a point. Answers without substancce annoy me. Plattitudes annoy me. I thot Krav Maga was all about being practical.. If you have detailed questions please do ask. I was asking about a general principle.. I thought Krav Maga was about learning sympol principles (teqniques) that one can apply to a wide range of situations.From the responses I have received on here, evidently not. From the responses on this thread, one can only deduce that each Krav Maga comabtive can only apply to a very specific kind of situation. That’s not how Krav Maga advertises itself and it is not what I am looking for.
Have fun with your plattitudes.
FIRST – Talking about annoyances, if you’re gonna play pseudointellectual, it would behoove you to learn how to spell the big words you’re trying to use… (actually, in your case, the big words AND little words)… People trying to use big words and failing miserably at simple spelling annoy me. :thunbsdown:
If you can’t see the forest for the trees, we can’t help you. Unstpabl1 gave a few examples of additional information which would make a difference in what kind of answers we might give. There are LOTS of “things” you could TRY in a crap situation. What each of us might try would depend on things such as what all is going on around us, our training/experience, and what we are most comfortable doing, etal. Even the best technique is not guaranteed to work or have the ideal outcome.
Face it, you asked a really foolish/naive question. It’s not an unusual question but IMO it needs to be looked at in more depth and worked through in person with someone who has some idea of what he/she is doing and has a better idea of what all is happening in your hypothetical scenario. What happens if/when that one effective and simple to learn technique doesn’t work out the way you had hoped? You just blew your wad – WTF are you gonna do now? Might be good to have plans B-Z.
From the attitude shown in more of your posts, my guess is that you’re the kind of person that would take a perfectly good answer to your ambiguous question, fail miserably at utilizing the suggestion/idea/technique/principle/etc and then come back and blame the person who gave it.
I won’t tell you to try something if you don’t have the coordination/skills to do it. I won’t tell you to try something if you don’t know when/how to use it. I won’t tell you to try something if you don’t have the right attitude about self-defense in the first place. Very few persons out there are going to suddenly up and charge you in a crazed manner FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER.
Re: "downing a charging bull"?
I actually wanted to wait to hear more information before I weighed in.
Hypothetical scenario –
parking lot no obstructions asphalt surface
300 lb man on a dead run – unarmed heavyset not body builder type
180 lb stationary man – unarmed and aware of the attack, wearing street shoes not leather soled dress
That sets the stages for no additional variables.
Simple answer is what was mentioned above – get out of the way the charging bull or the on coming freight train. 45 degree off angle side step with upper body torso moving out of the way as well.
Defense could be anything from dragging one of your feet so the attacker trips over it sprawling forward or leaving an arm horizontally extended in a clothes line fashion.
However having said that – we need to add a variable. How fast is he running? I mentioned above “dead run” which would indicate he was at a good pace and inertia would add in those two suggested defenses. But what if he’s offish and out of shape and because of this is actually doing more of a controlled fast walk? Will his inertia carry him forward? Or will he grab that outstretched arm of mine and now I’m in his grasp.
I mention this to illustrate a point, without the complete picture its impossible to paint the canvas and give the proper response.
When I first read your question my initial reaction was not what would I do but rather where am I, whats around me, who am I with, who do I need to protect or take into consideration. Because I think in terms of situational awareness, and the situation will dictate the proper response.
For example, am I sitting at the bar in a chair I can spin out of and use to put between us making him trip so I can bash him over the head with another chair? Am I on the dance floor slow dancing when I see him pushing people in the crowd to get to me. Am I midget tossing at the pub and can I use my little velcro’d friend as a quick defense? Or am I in the big open parking lot with nothing around and he is methodically stalking towards me.
Each situation offers a unique set of circumstance and variables and by virtue of those variables a unique response is required.
But hey what do I know, I could be wrong. :soapbox:
Re: "downing a charging bull"?
And the more Iím thinking about it lets talk about me for a sec:
Am I;
Holding a beer
A tall glass
A scotch glass
A shot glass
What shoes am I wearing? Rubber sole or leather dress.
Am I on carpet, wood or marble floor?
Am I wearing my folder, my Karambit or my commander? Is my Le Griffee slung?
Is there a table on my right or my left, there chairs around it? Bottles on it? A plate, butter knife? Ash tray?? Maybe a table candle full of wax? Or even better kerosene, I have my cigar torch on me right?
Am I standing square or bladed, my good side or bad?
Where are the exists? The bouncers? My friends? His friends?
Is my car in valet, across the street, down the block.
Is my bug bag in this car or the other one? My trauma kit? My ASP, my mag light, my non registered projectile ejector. (should you of course choose to carry such a thing)
All of these things fall under situational awareness MY SITUATION, and all if not most are predetermined before I walk in the place, while Iím standing around and certainly before a 300 lb man has the chance to charge me.
At the end of the day Krav Maga means do whatever it takes to go home safe.
And if that means buying myself time by making him trip over a table or chair so I can hit an exit…….. whatever works.
Re: "downing a charging bull"?
I’m putting the OP on ignore, but I wouldn’t mind exchanging ideas with the rest of the group:
How close is the BG? How fast is the BG? Is the BG armed? Does he seem coordinated? Do we know anything about him (any prior contacts/knowledge)? From which direction is the BG coming? Do we know he’s coming? How much room do you have to move? What objects are around you (stationary as well as portable)? Does the BG have friends with him (or anyone else who might take his side)? Where/what kind of place is this occurring? Is the BG saying/yelling anything? What was going on up until this point? Do we have any idea why the BG is crazed or how crazed he is?
What is your size/weight/age/skill level? Do you have anyone with you (friends, family, kids, etc)? Do you have the opening/opportunity/space to run or otherwise leave? How are you feeling that day? Do you have any kind of handicap/injury? Have you been drinking? Have you tried your best to defuse/avoid the situation? While interacting with the BG, what are you feeling? What do you think the BG’s intentions are? Are you afraid for your health/safety and, if so, how afraid? Are there cameras there? Are there other people there – what kind of witnesses do you think they would be (impartial or biased)?
Against someone (much) bigger and “crazed”, and not being able to run/leave/avoid, and having done everything I can to defuse/avoid, and believing the BG intends to inflict serious bodily injury on me, I’m going to want to arm myself asap. Gonna do whatever I can to buy time in order to arm myself. If I’m not carrying something with me, I’m looking for anything improvised.
If I can put things in his path (tables, chairs, etc), I’m going to do so. If I’m running/retreating, I’d prefer to do it sideways or diagonally back curving around. Straight back is slow(er) and blind. My preference is to stay up on my feet unless I’m clearly being outclassed in that range – that way, if the opportunity presents itself for me to vacate (among other advantages), I can take advantage immediately.
Principle based – if I have to fight someone – if I can negatively affect/impact the BG(s) ability to Move (including ability to attack), See, and/or Breathe, my chances of winning go up. However you want/like/are able to do any/all those things is pretty much up to you – whether you use punches, kicks, knees, elbows, head butts, impact weapons, improvised weapons, locks, chokes, bites, gouges, edged weapons/tools, etc – whether you target knees, hands/elbows/fingers, eyes, throat, side/back of the head, etc.
Wrto “charging” – is the BG running at you upright and flailing/punching, is the BG running at you lower and tackling, is the BG already shooting in for a takedown? What do you think the BG is going to do (e.g. engage you high, middle, or low)? What kind of personal experience do you have dealing with similar types of attacks (e.g. playing football, wrestling, judo, other MMA training)? Can you matador (redirect/sidestep); can you sprawl/crossface; can you backroll/flip; can you guillotine (standing or from guard); can you hook up, spin around or up and over, and apply a back to back sit through neck crank/break (dunno the proper name of the technque); how about just a straight BG head into pavement “DDT”?
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