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Recently my instructor has started changing methods, saying that although the older ones weren’t wrong, just the newer ones are better.
Some examples are the chokes, Our plucks are different and the goin kick telegraphs I think with a step back before the kick.
It is very hard for me to unlearn the old more explosive plucks, I am constantly trying to catch myself before I reach up and remind my self it now more to reach for the thumbs.
We’ve (DH and I) have been practicing at home, but I am wondering if this is happening all over, or is it just in our school?
Re: Getting confued
Can you give an example, like the pluck? I’m curious as to how different the techniques are getting. I haven’t been in a 1 or 2 class lately so I haven’t seen myself.
I’ve wondered myself – if one tested under one technique and the technique gets changed, I guess you’re responsible for knowing the new way when you test next time?:confused:
Re: Getting confued
quote mara_jade:Can you give an example, like the pluck?The pluck we used to be required to do was explosive reaching up, then a pluck to both hands, plucking them off the throat.
The “new” pluck sort of rolls the thumbs (specifically) off the throat, with the two hand pluck we also have a step back before the groin kick. This was in a level one class, but level one and level two are required to know this.
It is hard to describe in words, sorry for my lame- o attempt.
Re: Getting confued
Nah girl, it’s not lame..
Step back on the 2 handed pluck before kicking?? I guess I can’t see why since I’m use to the old way – you just do it, no stepping back. Just me but maybe they figured the old way some felt they were too close to give a good kick??:confused:
Gonna check Darren’s/John book again – I can’t remember seeing mention rolling the thumbs on the pluck in general..
Re: Getting confued
There is no step before the kick. That would go against the simultaneous counter attack principle and give your attacker time to re-start an attack. And yes, it telegraph’s the kick. You wouldn’t step back before you made a regular front kick to the groin from a neutral stance when there wasn’t a choke would you? Of course not, that would be silly, or karate. You might as well get into a fighting stance before you defend a punch too.:angry:
Also, the original pluck is correct. Just pluck explosively as close to the thumbs as possible. Do not attempt to ‘clasp’ onto the meaty part of the thumb and roll it out like a wrist lock, that would require strength, slows down the defense, and simply won’t work against a stronger, determined attacker. But don’t take my word for it, find a big strong dude and tell him to choke you and not to co-operate with your defense. Be sure to tap before you pass out.
Re: Getting confued
Thank you for clearing that up James. I’d run through the techniques in my head and thought maybe I was missing something.:wav:
Re: Getting confued
I was about to say the exact same thing, James. One of the absolute key principles of Krav is a simultaneous counter. There is no step before the kick!
Krav does go through changes, it isn’t married to tradition. If something makes us safer or is easier, Krav will make the change. When this happens, it is taught at Krav Maga Worldwide. I would like to know where your instructor is getting his changes.
Re: Getting confued
So, do you step back BEFORE the pluck? Or after? Either way, it sounds like a bad idea. I’m certain it’s not a KMWW approved technique, for the reasons already mentioned.
Re: Getting confued
I think I have even more questions now. I will report back after class Monday and tell you what he said – especially where this comes from.
Re: Getting confued
oppps.. i erased my last post because it was already stated… i should of read the whole thing 🙂
Re: Getting confued
quote Relli Kant:So, do you step back BEFORE the pluck? Or after? Either way, it sounds like a bad idea. I’m certain it’s not a KMWW approved technique, for the reasons already mentioned.Like was said earlier, stepping back is giving the attacker a heads up. I know in my center I hadn’t personally seen or heard of those moves being changed.
Leejam – second opinions are welcome, especially from instructors:beer:
Re: Getting confued
In a way i gotta feel like whatever you know is what you’re going to revert back to in a real-world situation, which is the point of krav to begin with. However, the more you know the more versatile you’ll be, and the more honed that response will be.
Re: Getting confued
I had this exact same discussion with Darren Levine in a conversation I had with him after a recent seminar. During the seminar, he taught us to do the defense the exact way that you described. Basically what he explained was neither way was necessarily wrong.
The two step process, he mentioned, was more to train new students how to make each element of the defense more effective.One issue some instructors have been seeing is when new students train to do both simultaneously at first, either the pluck is real strong and the kick is weak or vice versa.
By teaching the elements separately, students are more likely to execute the defense with more explosiveness in each element. Once the student gets more proficient and comfortable in each, the pluck/simultaneous counter will kind of work itself out naturally.
Technically the pluck never changed. It should always be up and out attacking the meaty part of the thumb(s) in a sharp, quick action. However new students may need to slow it down at first in order to learn it correctly.
As for the step back, Darren explained again that was more to get new students to used to the importance of a strong counter attack. It is not necessarily a mandatory part of the defense.
The desired final result is a strong, accurate pluck with a powerful simultaneous counter attack. It’s just that the method of getting there in training is slightly different.
The basic idea that I comprehended from Darren was students need to learn to crawl before they can walk. The principles behind Krav Maga are to evolve in changing conditions and to use what works, not only in real life situations, but in training as well.
Hope this helps.
Re: Getting confued
The pluck is both easily taught and easily learned. I agree that both portions of the defense should be taught seperately first. However a key to the “confusion” of new studentst is the fact that the attacker sometimes screws them up by not performing the attack properly. Or they stand in a modified fight stance while choking in an effort to “protect” their groin. So the new student does not feel comfortable throwing the kick. Also there is a common fear that the new student has of hitting the attacker in the groin. I tell them not to worry the other student should be wearing a cup! Lol….
As far as rolling the thumbs and all that goes I say fughedaboutit. It’s not an important detail for the defense to be effective.
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