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Re: Hitting women
quote unstpabl1:Thats funny. I almost stopped in to see you and watch class. Was a block away at the kenpo/bjj school.Sean do you know Sultan Uddin? cabeles Eskrima
Na just Doce Pares guys – you should have come in Miriam was there as well as Le Rev and Jerremy Stafford and Keith one of the head instructors from San Fran. My fight class was packed. and lvl 4 Jarret taught all knife material you would have enjoyed it.
sry for the thread hijack – back on topic
Re: Hitting women
quote russell:just my 2cent’s but on the street the bad guy wont care if he hit’s too hard,chokes too tight, or kicks her. prepare for the worst and pray for the best, i agree with you about hitting a woman i would NEVER hit a female, BUT if i don’t help HER train i’m not helping her. one of the instructors said it’s ok to fail in class……NOT ON THE STREETi also think it’s up to her, if she’s not comfortable working with you she need’s to switch partners it’s not fair for either of you to change your traning to work with the other, if she’s scared to work with you, she might not learn the right way, and you will change your power level so you wont hurt her… perfect PRACTICE makes perfect APPLICATION
like i said just my 2cents
russell
I have to agree with CLFMak when he said “I just keep in mind that both of us are helping each other improve. I let her hit hard, I take it easy and work on technique.”
and what KMMAN said “Think of it as “How can I help this person train?”. Thats your role as a partner. Try to guage what level of force you should use as with ANY partner. Do you go full force against a 130lb 65 year old man? Maybe you go harder against a 220lb 28 year old? What difference is it if your partner is a woman? She is there to train like all of us and learn something and REALITY IS SHE IS MORE LIKELY TO NEED IT THAN YOU.
Who is going to start with you at your size? Very few realistcally. On the other hand, your female partner is much more likely to need the training.
As for the other issues you mention…you have an obligation to your partner to help her train. Going “easy” will not help her. Going full force may not either so you must judge and go by what your partner tells you.”
I don’t agree that you should go hard on her in class because someone may go hard on her in the street. Even with chokes and grabs you can grab strong without actually doing harm. What good does it do her if you injure her by going full force. As stated control and common sense must prevail.
Sometimes it sucks if you get paired with a woman because you can’t go full force but also as mentioned you can work on form and technique.
Re: Hitting women
quote russell:just my 2cent’s but on the street the bad guy wont care if he hit’s too hard,chokes too tight, or kicks her. prepare for the worst and pray for the best, i agree with you about hitting a woman i would NEVER hit a female, BUT if i don’t help HER train i’m not helping her. one of the instructors said it’s ok to fail in class……NOT ON THE STREETi also think it’s up to her, if she’s not comfortable working with you she need’s to switch partners it’s not fair for either of you to change your traning to work with the other, if she’s scared to work with you, she might not learn the right way, and you will change your power level so you wont hurt her… perfect PRACTICE makes perfect APPLICATION
like i said just my 2cents
russell
Same question for you. Is it then okay for your partner,male or female, to respond full force to your “pre arranged attack”. Meaning they can hit you full force to say the temple to get out of your hold.
Another question, why would you “Never” hit a woman? And how can you say never?
Look partnering is a pain in the butt.Mostly because we all want to be partnered the way we want to be partnered. We want it done our way.
I agree with the sentiment that on the street the big bad man/woman won’t give a crap about your comfort. The problem becomes how do you train for it safely. Its an age old discussion and its not just a male/female discussion.
All SD training has agreed upon rules. Don’t hurt your partner is a big one. But partnering is based on a lie in a way. Its all pre arranged. When you clamp that choke on, you know exactly how their going to defend it. So its easy to make it harder to defend. Plus, your not going to want me to bite you, break fingers etc to formulate a release. So basically your saying its okay for you to go full out, but I can’t. If your stronger and know what I’m gonna do, well I gotta cheat. Big boy rules..there are none. Now we’ve turned learning a tech into a fight.
Learning techniques take repition. Its a very cooperative process. After 3000 times your just starting to get the mechanics down. Old Chinese saying
There really is no way to do true RBSD full out. yes you can pressure test to a degree, but you can’t go fullout. Even Redman suits are a Lie, because your not getting a real response from your technique. Like if I hit him in the throat all I get is padding, the reaction is different
Another area to think about is that the harder the attack on some techniques the easier it is for you to get hurt. Especially in movements that use your force against you. Saw a hyperextension for just that reason last night.
People get wild and dangerous to train with. The idea stolen from the Dog Brothers is to walk as a warrior for all of your days. Over aggressive training partners hurt people. And so much of the time its an ego thing.
Yes the arguement for reality is valid. Yes sometimes you won’t be able to hit the kick shield full force, but if your smart you can use that to your advantage. Leave it up to you to figure out how. As the Marines say Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.” Speed equal power. Working with differnt sizes and energies is important. And yes if your smaller it isn’t an excuse to whack the bigger person because you think it won’t hurt him:dunno:
In the end your training partner is giving you their most valuable pocession to help you improve yourself. They need to be admired, respected and most of all protected by us.. Everyone struggles with their own weakness, fears, and stories. The Martial arts exposes a lot of that. In the end we all in that room to grow. And we will each grow faster thru our willingness to help the other person. That is flat out the way life works out. Ask any instructor and they’ll tell you they learn more from teaching( Helping) a student, than the did as a student.
Anyway hope this adds to the discussion. Don’t sweat it guys should be getting back to work soon and back to lurkingthumbsup
Re: Hitting women
quote CJs Dad:Na just Doce Pares guys – you should have come in Miriam was there as well as Le Rev and Jerremy Stafford and Keith one of the head instructors from San Fran. My fight class was packed. and lvl 4 Jarret taught all knife material you would have enjoyed it.sry for the thread hijack – back on topic
Thanks. saw Anthony Kleeman won Cacoy’s tournament last year and got promoted to 9th. Never met him. Glad I didn’t show. I think I’ve pissed everyone on that list offrofl2
Re: Hitting women
As for the “I’ll never hit a woman” thing, I can see the good intention behind it, but what it there’s that 180 pound monster woman with tattoos all over her body, holding a gun right to your head and telling you to get into the ****ing car? Are you not going to hit her, because she is a woman? If so, I think you ought to reconsider.
I’m known to be a lovely, gentle person, so I vow never to hit a woman or a man – unless they attack or threaten me first and then, yeah, it’s on! :):
As for attacking strongly in class (choke defense or the like), yes I think you should go strong, as long as I have a way out such as tapping or so, just in case. But I do need to feel a strong attack, or I could become overconfident.
Also, always remember that if you are working with a woman in class, you are helping her to become stronger and maybe one day help her thwart a real attack. If you partner with her, you could help her develop skills that could save her life one day and that will be well worth it and the truly gentlemanly thing to do. thumbsup
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GiantkillerRe: Hitting women
[quote=Giant Killer;30310]As for the “I’ll never hit a woman” thing, I can see the good intention behind it, but what it there’s that 180 pound monster woman with tattoos all over her body, holding a gun right to your head and telling you to get into the ****ing car? Are you not going to hit her, because she is a woman? If so, I think you ought to reconsider.
Theres a vid on youtube of a bunch of girls egging this guy on. Then they beat him. They were taping it so they were looking for a victim.
I love this sig line from The Shootest. It goes something like I won’t be wronged, I won’t be insulted and I won’t be laid a hand on. I don’t do these things to other people and I expect to be treated in kind.
All respect is earned. Sex is just an excuse
Re: Hitting women
quote unstpabl1:Thanks. saw Anthony Kleeman won Cacoy’s tournament last year and got promoted to 9th. Never met him. Glad I didn’t show. I think I’ve pissed everyone on that list offrofl2Privates with him a few times a week defiantly wore off on me thatís for sure. I wish I could still afford him!
Re: Hitting women
I’ve found that a lot of people don’t meet the force of a strike when they’re holding pads for a parter. This is something that I was taught early on. If you meet the force coming in rather than just letting it hit the pad, you can take shots from a much stronger individual. If I can take kicks on a pad from some of the monsters I train with, then with proper training a woman should be able to hold a pad for a stronger man.
Re: Hitting women
quote KMMAN:Who is going to start with you at your size? Very few realistcally.I don’t know about that one, I get into it quite a bit just because of my size and build.
Re: Hitting women
I’ve held pads for pretty big guys. I remember, during my yellow belt test, I held a kicking shield for a guy twice my size and he pushed me back several feet with each kick. Didn’t hurt, though, I just kept moving back in to get ready for the next one. thumbsup I’ve held shields for many big guy’s since, as long as you brace yourself for impact and hold the pad right it’s fine.
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GiantkillerRe: Hitting women
quote Giant Killer:As for the “I’ll never hit a woman” thing, I can see the good intention behind it, but what it there’s that 180 pound monster woman with tattoos all over her body, holding a gun right to your head and telling you to get into the ****ing car? Are you not going to hit her, because she is a woman? If so, I think you ought to reconsider._________________
GiantkillerYou mean someone like this? (Might have to click the age disclaimer)
Re: Hitting women
quote KMMAN:This is an important distinction. I am of the opinion you always hit full force when using pads …unloess instructors says start off less than 100% for technique or whatever. I think BRADM was referring to hitting full force when NOT using pads, maybe working on SD techniques.Someone correct me if Im wrong.
Full force = as much as your partner can handle. You can get hurt holding the pad for someone too strong for you. Myself, there have been a few instances where my injury-weakend wrist gave out while holding the pad for a crotch kick, and that led to further (minor) injury on that wrist. Once the damage had been done I couldn’t hold the pad for my partner even when he went easier on his kicks and my wrist was swollen for three days.
Re: Hitting women
Yeah, that’s the one!! Her behind is bigger than all of me :(:
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GiantkillerRe: Hitting women
It drives me nuts when guys take it easy on me. Sometimes even when you communicate that, you may still have to get the point across. It usually happens to me in level 1 classes. Say we’re doing chokes, here comes a shoulder massage. Then the guys freak out when I choke them.
I know one time I didn’t realize how hard I went against a newbie. I was in a 1 class and we were doing palm heel strikes. She held the tombstone while I did my round. I didn’t realize how hard I went (felt pretty light to me). When I was done, she stepped out to go barf..Oops:OhMy:
It’s important to really gauge what your partner can handle.thumbsup
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