- This topic has 47 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 18 years, 2 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Just a quick update: Yesterday we reviewed everything covered so far. In addition…I’m not sure how to word this correctly, so bear with me…defensive moves against oral rape were introduced. Fights were long and drawn out, often to the point of exhaustion. The idea, not unfamiliar to you guys, was to show we always have one more kick than our attacker can absorb.
There was a lot of verbal stuff, ranging from friendly draws to outright taunts (in one of my fights, I was laying on my back to simulate sleep, and my attacker \”woke\” me by climbing on me whispering in a sing-songy way close to my ear, \”Yooouu left your window open…\”). It was a surprise to discover how much that can mess with you psychologically.
Today is a regular class plus a \”graduation\” at the end where supporters and potential students can come watch 3 rounds of fights. My husband is coming to watch ~ here’s hoping I don’t freeze! 🙄
I believe we all can agree that the concept behind this type of training is good, and they have their place in the DT training toolbox, but they have their problems in the execution, the mindset of most of those training and worst of all the 1 sided nature of the scenario that leave something to be desired.
What I mean regarding \”execution\” is that the suits are so big and unrealistic it loses much of the reality based value it strives for, + the attackers cant really move the way they need to.
Next regarding the \”mindset\” of most that attend the Model Mugging/FAST Defense/Bulletman type training, as Ryan points out, do it as a 1 time event and believe it’s enough. It isnt.
Finally and most importantly, regarding the \”1 sided nature\” of the scenario, you are only training one side of the altercation with this type of training. Only one person in the scenario is wearing the suit, so only one person is getting hit and no matter how you slice it, the defender (who in reality is the one who has to deal with the adrenaline dump and fear associated with being hit) has very little risk. Which means very little \”Stress Inoculation\”. How does this train a realistic scenario?
As a Krav instructor (IMHO), the best way to test your timing, theories and spontaneity is by practicing realistic force-on-force drills. But the training can’t just be physical, it must also address and develop the psychological & emotional side of a confrontation. To accomplish this, you need realistic \”Full Spectrum\” Stress Inoculation which includes:
1.) The Verbal Assault:You need gear that allows you to speak clearly (verbal escalation and de-fusion is critical in a realistic scenario depiction).
2.) Realistic Mobility: You need to move freely and you want your role-player to move freely. (Bulky gear forces practitioners to develop tactics \”around the gear\” instead of \”around the fight\”). Role-players should move with natural movement, and the ‘actual size’ of the attacker should be proportional to a real person, the result: what you do in training replicates what you must do in the real confrontation.
3.) Sudden Transitions from Range to Range: The gear must allow you to shift instantly as you would in a real fight (heavy gear slows down movement so that you develop timing to an unrealistic stimulus).
4.) Ergonomically Realistic: You want gear that challenges you to make contact with a target as it would appear in the street (bulky gear distorts proximity sense and creates false sense of follow through because the bulk makes the slower target to you).
5.) Impact Reduction, not \”Removal\”: By providing feedback through contact and measured pain through ‘threshold drills’, the gear should allow you to fully engage and test your tactics. Gear that is too bulky does not transfer impact, so feedback and pain management are never introduced in training. Penalty is a key component in creating risk/fear in training.
6.) Most importantly……BOTH PARIES SHOULD BE WEARING THE GEAR! It allows role-players and defenders to both experience the full spectrum of stress inoculation.
The only gear that I have found that covers all of these points is the Blauer High Gear Suits.
– Each suit only weighs around 7.5 lbs and it only takes a few minutes to put on.
– It provides total mobility, allowing for grappling, clinching and weapons defense training.
– Its the only gear I’ve found that you can wear clothes over to increase the visual reality and sensory overload for students in simulations, which will increase the adrenal surge.
– It can be used with any method of scenario-based training (Simunitions/marking-cartridge training, DT, combatives, self-defense, etc.). You want to work/ train with real weapon scenarios….then Simunitions and High Gear offer a viable option when added to training scenarios.
………(continued)………….
………(continued)……..
– Oversized suits do not allow for the all important closure of the close quarter struggle, which for the LEO or soldier is handcuffing or prisoner handling, for the MMA athlete its a submission move. Using any of the bulky scenarios suits does not allow ‘handcuffing’. The High Gear suit allows for cuffing, groundfighting, clinching, weapon control and so on.
– Oversize suits do not allow training in realistic environments like vehicles, elevators, small rooms etc. High Gear is a great suit for isolation drills, cuffing resistance training, weapon retention drills, etc. but it takes scenario training to the next level by allowing creative trainers to take the gear into realistic environments like elevators, cars, corridors and so on.
Are other suits obsolete then?????
Absolutely not. Redman, FIST, Bullet, etc., are good for training students in technique & power, but their applications for dynamic simulations are VERY limited.
Professionally, I do not consider them to be true ‘active/dynamic’ scenario suits, where speed, mobility and realistic tactics must be present. They are not FTX or force-on-force suits. This is not a put down, merely a distinction. A useful analogy might be…the Hummer and Lamborghini are both excellent vehicles but are designed for completely different applications & functions – with this in mind, protective gear must also be classified and then used for appropriate applications.
Rev Gear sells the Blauer Suits if anyone wants to check them out..Good stuff, we have a few at my school and we will be adding more.
Just my $.02, hope it helps ;),
Kirian
I hear what you are saying about the suit being way too bulky, so a thinner, more realistic suit would certainly be an improvement.
The problem with training is just that – it’s just training, so we can’t really beat the crap out of each other. That fact makes most training somewhat unrealistic. Even in KM class for example, you only pretend to make your counterattack and the attacker can not hit you back.
If you had a very thin protective suit and used that in a fighting drill, the attacker would still not feel any pain if you hit him, so even that wouldn’t be completely realistic. If both wear the suit, both don’t feel pain, so one couldn’t really tell who would have gotten hurt more by what punch if it had been a real fight.
So, while the IMPACT training may have some drawbacks, it might also have benefits, so training like that sometimes may not be a bad idea.
By the way, the best defense against the oral rape thing would probably be a nice strong bite… 😈
Or what I like to call \”The Testicle Pull.\” 😯
Most things evolve (my cousin’s husband the rare exception 😛 ). I’m hoping the Impact program will do that as well, always striving to improve where they may possibly fall short.
Good news: I didn’t freeze. Not once in 4 fights. And my husband has said at least twice to me tonight how surprised he was by my ferocity. 😀
Re:
quote \”Giantkiller\:The problem with training is just that – it’s just training, so we can’t really beat the crap out of each other. That fact makes most training somewhat unrealistic. Even in KM class for example, you only pretend to make your counterattack and the attacker can not hit you back.……Giantkiller, Thats the whole point, thats what is missing in traditional training (even \”reality based\” training as you said), realistically training the entire scenario in it’s entirety from the pre-contact stage to actual contact/the fear of contact/management of that fear/etc, etc, all the way to the aftermath.
Thats what this type of training tries to overcome, but as I said the \”Bubbleheaded\”/bulky suit paradigm only covers part of the equation. They have their place in the toolbox, but they are not the only tool needed to \”fix\” the street attack and I think thats what Ryan’s (and many other DT trainers) major problem is with the weekend warrior type seminars.
quote \”Giantkiller\:If you had a very thin protective suit and used that in a fighting drill, the attacker would still not feel any pain if you hit him, so even that wouldn’t be completely realistic. If both wear the suit, both don’t feel pain, so one couldn’t really tell who would have gotten hurt more by what punch if it had been a real fight.GK, we agree, if you read my post, you’ll see the following
5.) Impact Reduction, not \”Removal\”: By providing feedback through contact and pain through ‘threshold drills’, the gear should allow you to fully engage and test your tactics. Gear that is too bulky does not transfer impact, so feedback and pain management are never introduced in training. Penalty is a key component in creating risk/fear in training.
…….When you get hit in High Gear Suit it still hurts, thats what it is designed for, it’s an \”impact REDUCTION\” suit, which means you can take more contact hits before your injured, but it still hurts. If I hit you with an elbow during a scenario its still going to ring your bell, just not bust your teeth. Which goes right along with the Krav mentality, training should \”hurt\” just not \”injure\”, but it is CONTACT COMBAT right?????? ;).
Nothing and I repeat NOTHING can replace the reality of the street attack, we as progressive trainers just need to try to find the best/most realistic training concepts, methods and equipment for our students, in an effort to best \”REPLICATE\” the street attack scenario, thus providing our students with the \”Stress Inoculation\” and \”Mental Blueprint\” necessary to survive a real world street attack.
In that regard, I believe the High Gear Suits offer an excellent tool for that particular problem. Again not the only tool, just a very valuable one.
Hope it helps,
Kirian
In think we agree about the suit. I have never seen one, how thin is it? Will the attacker still look pretty realistic in it (not too bulky)?
Sounds very interesting. I actually think it may be a good idea to try and incorporate the use of a suit like that into regular training. Does it have a facemask? If both students wore the suit, maybe one could even try to do some of the KM defenses \”live\” and actually be able to punch the opponent. And he could punch back as the defender is struggling for the weapon. Still not the real thing of course, but a little more intense compared to what we are able to do without protective gear.
GK…..Exactly, thats why I love the High Gear Suits :),
Here’s a review of the gear from Police One magazine:
http://www.policeone.com/police-products/training/suits/articles/92608/
Here are some photo’s of the gear in action to give you a feel for it:
http://www.policeone.com/policeone/data/1/images/dyn/ACFC56.jpg
http://www.academyselfdefense.com/Image13.gif
http://www.tonyblauer.com/filesUpload/gallery_images/Very%20tight%20armbar%20-%20in%20full%20gear!.jpg
http://www.tonyblauer.com/filesUpload/gallery_images/Cung%20Le%20with%20our%20gear.JPG
http://www.tonyblauer.com/filesUpload/gallery_images/Ring_combat.jpg
http://www.tonyblauer.com/filesUpload/gallery_images/DSC00636.jpg
http://www.dggtaser.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/bfullsuit.jpg
Hope that gives you an idea of what it looks like :),
Kirian
Sure the suits are cool, but the concern is the goals and objectives of the seminar/training.
Given the limiting training time (2, 4 or 8 hours), what is the course aiming to accomplish? Answering that will predicate whether the suit is a useful training tool (like focus mitts or kick shields).
Anything else and you’re just hitting foam.
Jon
P.S. We use fight suits in our WSD seminars, and they have accelerated some of our progressions. But keeping things in context, they are used for specific objectives .. no more than that.
Wow, that’s a really cool suit. What I wonder is if there’s any neck protection. With those fist suits, you usually see a cervical collar as well. A heavy helmet will actually create more leverage on the neck when struck with force.
Discounts for large quantities! Hear that, John? 😀 😀
Looks like they would work well in training. The hands are not wrapped up too tightly, so the attacker could still hold a weapon. One thing I’m wondering about is whether they come in different sizes, or one size fits all?
Jon,
The specific goal of any training evolution should be clearly defined before you engage, so we are in agreement.
CLF,
Yes there is neck protection, the last photo at the bottom shows the different pieces of the suit.
GK,
Yes there are multiple sizes and yes you can not only utilize weapon/weapon defense/gun retention drills, etc, we do it all the time, but even better for LEO and Mil you can wear your duty gear over it.
, Kirian
I think the value of this training, is that women are conditioned through their life to not fight, not resist, not make a scene in general.
They may find themselves in a situation where the attacker assumes they will be intimidated, and not fight back as the attack proceeds. It goes without saying that in a sexual assault the criminal will \”expose themselves\” to an attack to a vulnerable area, so why not gain confidence in specific techniques to take out their opponent?
It doesn’t take a lot of skill to strike a vulnerable area, in this situation, but it would take some training to have the patience and the confidence to wait for the right opportunity.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
