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Hey guys.
I have only recently found out about this, what is your opinion?
It certainly seems a safer alternative than MMA for “testing” certain skills.
It allows headbutts & groin attacks, I read but it says it doesn’t allow groin attacks in the video. :Unsure:
Also it doesn’t allow a long time on the ground as it is “Self Defence” orientated & the ground should never be willingly sought.
http://www.warrington-kickboxing.com/Kudo_Okami_Dojo/What.shtm
Re: Is Kudo the answer to a sporting outlet for Krav Maga?
I don’t think any one program/system/thing is the answer. A good MMA program is great. Any sport is going to be a compromise to a real life fight training. I think this is ok. Sport style sparring is a great way to safely practice your fighting. Never let the rules push you into training tactics that are not realistic all the time. I think we (self-defense minded marital artists) all overthink this sometimes.
It is the fighter’s mindset, not the fighting system that will win the day for you. The key is putting yourself at the disadvantage and in uncomfortable positions when training. Keeping it real. On that note, I think we are still all overthinking grappling. I feel most people just don’t like grappling.
I get that the ground should not be your end game if you can avoid it. We all know the bad-guy could have friends or you never want to roll/fall on concrete/rocks, etc. So many unknowns in the world.
The issue I have with this mindset is you can’t choose in real life. General Patton said, “The first casualty of war is always your plan”. If you plan to stay off the ground, Good luck.
You don’t want your first time on the ground with a bigger, stronger opponent to be on the street. The bad guy may choose the ground. Maybe you can’t avoid it. It fact, it is likely you can’t.
So many strikers say I’ll bite, eye poke kick him in the beans, etc. and get right back up. Good. Luck. It is difficult to “get back up” if the person you are fighting is bigger/stronger and/or a better grappler then you. Distance management is key. I like the idea of “staying off the ground” but it can’t be helped sometimes.
The issue is I’m just an average Joe. I know that crap will go wrong for me. How do I know? That is just how life is. We all need to train on the ground (real ground training) at least once a week. That means lots of ground drilling, positional control and then “rolling”/sparring. It takes time with a good grappling coach to be ready for rolling. Lots of time.
Re: Is Kudo the answer to a sporting outlet for Krav Maga?
It does train for the ground but in a different manner. Emphasis on taking down or stuffing the takedown rather than long drawn out sub’s. The sub must happen very quickly if at all.
Emphasis on striking from what I gather.
To me it seems a set of skills better suited for self defence, except for all the high kicks they seem to love but no sport will be perfect.
I believe you should train to grapple just not in a sport bjj manner. The emphasis should be in controlling where the fight ends up (prefferably standing or the ither guy on the floor) . it is why I am training judo & wrestling ATM.
I have never been in a real situation where I wished I could take someone to the floor to submit. been more like ” I really hope I don’t end up on the floor”
Re: Is Kudo the answer to a sporting outlet for Krav Maga?
The head guard adds a certain degree of safety I imagine, from a hands on look at the helmet it seems to protect the face quite well.
I received teeth implants a few years ago & was advised never to do sports such as boxing which includes heavy direct blows to the face. Kudo would allow me to compete in a MMA type of event without that worry.
It would also alow me to take up a striking art again.
Re: Is Kudo the answer to a sporting outlet for Krav Maga?
You can wear face-covering headgear for any kind of sparring. There are lots of styles. I’ve seen pictures of Manny Pacquiao wearing this one and it gets great reviews on Sherdog. I don’t think anyone is going to accuse Manny of being wimpy because he covers up his face.
Re: Is Kudo the answer to a sporting outlet for Krav Maga?
Kudo looks like a legit art (judging from the video). I will see if I can take a class to see what they are all about.
Re: Is Kudo the answer to a sporting outlet for Krav Maga?
That head guard seems expensive. The ones at the club I looked at were £55 custom orders apparently. Kudo is really in its infancy in the UK no one knows about it here. I think while mma is popular it will struggle. Interestingly I notice you have Geoff Thompson in your SIG one of the the things he commented on regarding Ufc style Mma was the protracted ground game & willingness of competitors of going to the ground. He recommended judo & boxing as the 2 sporting arts to train for SD.
Re: Is Kudo the answer to a sporting outlet for Krav Maga?
Again, MMA is a “sport,” and has its place. The rules allow you to go to the ground so if you’re facing a really good striker, why wouldn’t you want to go to the ground? One thing that I like to include when I grapple is light strikes to keep it honest. If someone is mounted or in my guard I HAVE to get in a better position or I’m going to have bombs rained down on me.
Have you seen those ridiculous 5 vs. 5 competition videos by “Team Fighting Championship?” They don’t last very long (under a minute usually).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GixDXD44_yA
Winning makes some nice, high end boxing gear. But they’re pricey.
Re: Is Kudo the answer to a sporting outlet for Krav Maga?
Re: “safety”, I guess that’s debatable. That faceguard provides some protection yes but your brain still gets banged up and you still experience concussive episodes (all the way to lights out) and those gloves look pretty effing thin.
If you limit ground, all else being equal, you are increasing stand up range impacts and damage. Look at boxing, all you’re doing is going head and body – IMO, those guys experience more traumatic brain injury than just about any/everybody else.
Kudo looks fun, fun to train, fun to watch – kinda reminds me of Sanda / San Shou. That being said, I don’t see it replacing muay thai or MMA and I disagree that MMA will be “struggling” any time in the near to mid future.
Re: the 5 on 5 video – was it me or did it look like the two teams weren’t evenly matched? Looked like a college football team playing a high school football team. That being said, I actually find the format interesting. Sayoc and Atienza kali do mass attack and melee training and “teamwork” martial arts, self-defense, defensive tactics is something I’ve been thinking about exploring and adding to our curriculum.
Re: Is Kudo the answer to a sporting outlet for Krav Maga?
When I said struggling I was talking about Kudo struggling because of MMA.
I understand that these are both sports but I find it curious to think which sport would be a better outlet for Krav Maga skill set in a sporting context.
Some sort of MMA event I imagine but the popular MMA makes people too comfortable with being on the ground. Fighters may allow themselves to get taken down because they feel they have better submission skills.
Primarily for SD you want to keep standing & strike in my opinion. Which is what Krav recommends, to me Kudo seems more in line with that. The focus is striking with either stuffing the take down or being the one to take down, with a very short amount of time for a sub if at all. Though I don’t think they have gone about how to enforce that ideal the right way. I cant think of a better way to be honest.
In my opinion it would be a better option to test Krav skill set than popular MMA but far less accessible.
Re: Is Kudo the answer to a sporting outlet for Krav Maga?
Yeah these Winning things look very much like Kudo headgear. Good post thanks!
Re: Is Kudo the answer to a sporting outlet for Krav Maga?
Hi all,
Again I think some are over thinking this. MMA training is a great way to train both your stand-up and ground skills. I’m telling you from experience, when you are on the street and end up on the ground, your mind will be SCREAMING at you to get off the ground.
If you are not training grappling (real time on the mat) in the gym, you may not have the skills to get off the ground when you need to. A few headlock and mount escape drills a few times a month/once a week built into your regular classes is not going to cut it. You need quality grappling time with a quality instructor to have the skills to get off the ground when fighting a bigger, stronger, violent bad-guy.
If you are going into a fight with good ground fighting skills, your stand-up Krav Maga will be better. You won’t panic when on your back because it wont be the first time you’ve been in this position. The Krav schools I’ve visited seem to know this and practice grappling regularly.
Please understand that I’m not advocating taking the fight to the ground, only spending quality-training time on your ground skills. The rest is up to you and your mind-set. If you remember that you are a Krav Maga fighter first, and only using MMA to supplement your training then you will be ok. Only a full-fledged MMA fighter is going into “ring strategy “ and his “game plan”.
Most Krav Maga schools use regular Kickboxing style sparring to practice timing, footwork, taking/receiving a punch, etc. This is really no different. In short, training to avoid the ground is a great idea but you still need to train real grappling skills to give you the ability to get back up when your plan goes to hell and you end up on the ground.
Thanks,
Stay Safe….
Re: Is Kudo the answer to a sporting outlet for Krav Maga?
I agree to a certain degree. BTW I am not saying Standard MMA is bad but other types of sport fighting or MMA with different rule sets could be better for augmenting Krav.
But again to simply say practice ground grappling is a bit too open ended as depending what you ended up studying it may not really teach you what your after, like getting up off the ground & disengaging. You may end up having to practice/learn a lot of not particularly useful stuff (for Krav that is).
For instance 3 of my friends do sport BJJ, one is a good friend of mine in particular. He keeps stating the same as you “If you are not training grappling (real time on the mat) in the gym, you may not have the skills to get off the ground when you need to”.
I can definitely see the logic, however at no time was I taught how get someone off me & stand back up or even takedowns/takedown defence when I attended something like 10 classes (maybe 10 ?).
So yes find a grappling school if you want to sharpen your grappling, but one that practice takedowns, stuffing takedowns, actually getting back to your feet. Places more importance on being on top etc.
I ended up trying wrestling for MMA & BJJ for MMA. Of the two I found wrestling/catch wrestling seemed more applicable.
Currently giving Judo a try, verdicts still out however.
I think also though people underestimate how far a little basic knowledge of ground grappling can go. If your opponent is untrained what you learn in krav can be enough to get you back to your feet. If someone doesn’t feel they practice it enough in their school they could always ask to do more drills. Would probably be more useful than learning a berimbolo sweep for them.
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