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Hi
My question is, and this is kinda Krav Maga related but not 100%. What are the physical limitations of executing a judo-style throw on an opponent?
Let’s keep it simple, and just say for the basic hip throw and shoulder throw. How much taller can your opponent be than yourself and it can still work, and how much heavier or wider can he be?
I’m guessing that heavy isn’t TOO much of a problem. You can throw him as long as your legs can support the weight, but height surely must become a problem at some point especially for the shoulder throw, as well as width maybe for the hip throw (and height, if your hips are somewhere in his legs!
Personally I guess against a much larger opponent I’d go somewhat for attacking the groin and knees and feet as fast and viciously as I can, using my speed as an advantage, but it’s still interesting to know what the limitations of various moves are.
Re: Judo throws
I’ve executed both throws against much larger opponents (up to twice my weight), however never in sparring, just practicing in class. It’s all about getting your hips underneath his to create leverage. If you do it correctly, it should work with bigger guys.
We usually practice it in two different ways, in the first, you hook the opponents arm and then throw him, in the other, you put your arm around the hip. The latter method is hard to do if it’s a much bigger guy, as it is difficult to place your shorter arm around his wide body. But the first method works well.
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GiantkillerRe: Judo throws
This is not necessarily Krav Maga but they have a total of 67 judo throws on youtube.
67 Judo Throws of the Kodokan (1 of 3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSwW7YRwvRk
Re: Judo throws
I have executed both in practice AND sparring against bigger opponents.During my KM black belt exam I had to execute the techniques against a partner that outweighed me by at least 60 lbs.
Matter of fact, I pulled off a drop seoi nage on a bigger opponent in the finals of a BJJ tourny this weekend.
The throws are based on proper placement of leverage and physics.
BTW, there’s nothing like osoto gari or tomo nage against bigger opponents!
Lastly, Krav employs all these throws (hip, shoulder, leg sweep, sacrifice) in the curriculum.
Re: Judo throws
Ok as I said I’m sure that weight isn’t the big issue, as it’s all about leverage. But what about height? I’m sure that I would be unable to throw a 2m tall opponent over my shoulder, being only 1.65m myself! Again I haven’t tried so maybe I’m wrong, but I’m guessing that their hand would reach the ground before their armpit met my shoulder!
Re: Judo throws
i second the “throws are based on proper placement of leverage and physics”. i’ve seen a 5’4″, 130lb woman flip a 6’3″ 250lb man several times, and i’ve been thrown around by that woman several times. both shoulder and hip.
Re: Judo throws
quote KMKY:i second the “throws are based on proper placement of leverage and physics”. i’ve seen a 5’4″, 130lb woman flip a 6’3″ 250lb man several times, and i’ve been thrown around by that woman several times. both shoulder and hip.Im what you would call a “big guy”… Weigh in at about 250 give or take 5lbs (mostly give) and not tall at 5′ 10″… In a previous life in another art… I was thrown by females that could not have been more than 100lbs. Remember – I said thrown, as in, when I landed I was not where I started….
My experience is that most techniques work if performed correctly – most that have survived the 100s of years of picking apart are just plain old good…
Re: Judo throws
quote Liquid Rockface:Ok as I said I’m sure that weight isn’t the big issue, as it’s all about leverage. But what about height?In practice alone, I find height disparities facilitate the leverage required for hip and shoulder toss.
You have to get at/under the center of mass. Being considerably shorter than your parter means its easier to get there.
One of my DC students was easy 6’3/6’5 (too lazy to convert to meters). I’m short and stocky; I had little trouble throwing him in demonstration.
Keep in mind, height is one of several variables in attempting the throws IN REAL TIME. Other things to consider: what direction is his weight going? What direction is YOUR WEIGHT going? Did you fit properly? Is he throwing combatives at you, or vice versa? Does the environment provide proper space for me to attempt this throw?
My point is, if the opportunity for the throw wasn’t there, I’d opt to do something else.
My $.02.
Re: Judo throws
Ok great, thanks for all the answers! I still get the feeling that I wouldn’t be able to judo throw somebody like Bob Sapp for the life of me LOL. He’d more likely lift me up with one hand and throw me! I suppose with somebody like him a sacrifice throw might work, as long as he doesn’t land on me :O
Re: Judo throws
I’m 5’1 (about 1,55 meters) and pretty much everyone is taller than me. The throw should still work. Sacrifice throws are cool, too. The biggest person I’ve thrown with it was about 6’3, 260 pounds (just in training, though).
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GiantkillerRe: Judo throws
I have in real life thrown a person who is about 10cm taller and 10kg heavier than me over my shoulder with a Ippon Seio Nage. It was just an older guy when I was at school, who tried to fool about and rear choke me. I just grabbed his arm and flipped him over, slowing down at the throwing point so that I wouldn’t break his back!
He was pretty stunned and that was the last time he tried anything like that on me LOL.
I also once threw a guy who was a bit taller than me but probably about my weight, when he attempted a front choke on me. I’m not sure exactly what I did but I think I burst my hands outward to break the choke (or maybe trapped his hands before he reached a choke) and then I threw him somehow. I seem to remember at one point he was horizontal to the ground and I was holding him, and then I slammed him down. He didn’t get up for about a minute, just lay there aching on the grass. Any ideas what throw that could be?
I remember though once trying to counter a 105kg guy who was trying to wrestle me down, and it was like trying to move a house. Literally he did not budge.
Re: Judo throws
http://www.flashmavi.com would be another good one. thumbsup
Re: Judo throws
quote JewishFitness1976:Can Krav Maga do something similiar to what flash mavi does ?It would be nice if Krav Maga was able to do something like what flashmavi is doing. thumbsup
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