Military Service and KM

[armitage]

Hi all,

As some of you may know, I’m emigrating to the US later this year, initially to Colorado where my wife’s family is based. We’ve been having a lot of discussions for the past year or so over what career/job I’m going to take when we get there, and I’m leaning strongly towards the military as a choice, for a variety of reasons, from wanting a job which demands I keep in good shape, to the fast-track to Citizenship which I’ll be eligible for, and most importantly, doing something for my new country 😉

My first question is particularly towards those forum members who have been in the military themselves, although anyone is welcome to respond – my choice is between the Army, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard (Navy doesn’t have as many ratings which interest me, and USAF only take people who have lived in the US for 2 years). Army/Marines I’m looking at Corrections specialist, eventually getting into CID once the Citizenship comes through. USCG I’m looking at Bosun’s Mate or Operations Specialist. The aim is to eventually get into Law Enforcement, preferably Federal, or USAF Officer in Space Operations (yeah diverse interest…but both are equally appealing). Any opinions are more than welcome on the choices.

The second, is actually a lot more Krav related! 😆

I found the US Army H2H manual here: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-25-150/index.html

and the Marine Corps Martial Arts manual here:

http://www.judoinfo.com/pdf/USMCcombat.pdf

I read that the USCG trains in KM, although I haven’t found a specific site about their Law Enforcement/H2H program, so I’m not sure of the specifics. In any case I hope my KM training would stand me in good stead, but I would like to keep it up during my service, and so was also looking for opinions on which service would complement it the most? This is a relatively minor issue, as I’m sure they all have good training programs and I would hopefully be able to find a KM training center wherever I was posted…but it’s still something I’d like to know about if possible.

Thanks in advance for any advice/info given! 😀

[unstpabl1]

There are a few really good U.S. military forums out there where guys can help you with the ins and outs of it. I’ll dig a bit over the weekend and see if i can help you. good luck

[kravjeff]

I have no experience in the military (though if I had it to do all over again I would) but want to welcome you to Colorado!! Infantry in the army and spec-ops in either is what I’d hav gone for if I was smarter when I was young …

Be sure to look me up when you’re here!

[sean-akrav]

I have no Military experience but I am currently in ROTC. There is a guy in here that was a Navy SEAL and that is pretty insane. You should talk to usnavy because I’m sure he has a lot of info to give and a bunch of awesome stories. If I do contract I will be going Army Infantry most likely.

[claykreiling]

I’m not a KM student, but I study BJJ and Thai boxing. I just finished a 5 year contract with the US Navy. During my time, I got to work with both Marines an the Navy in the security world. We train hand to hand, but it is a hybrid of many martial arts forms. At the time, I didn’t know about KM, having looked back at some of the training we did, I can say that we did use KM. There is a lot of BJJ used also.

The Navy has the same jobs that most of the other branches have. Our EOD squads are the best bomb squads in the world. If you have any questions that I can help you with, email or PM me.

Clay

[cw4-ret-h]

Military Service

I served 24 years on active duty with the Army and retired in 1996 as a Chief Warrant Officer Four. My entire career was with the JAG Corps. CID agents are also warrant officers so, through the years, I have had many, many CID agents who were and are close personal friends — both from a professional standpoint (they typically investigated the more serious crimes prosecuted by our office) and personal standpoint. Needless to say, I don’t believe you would regret a career in the Army. There are many, many opportunities to excel in the Army. I did serve for two years in a joint command with Navy, Marine Corps, and Air Force JAG personnel and they all seemed to enjoy their particular branch of service, as well. My career found me in Europe for 16 years, the Far East for 2 years, and six years in the U.S. The opportunity to travel and train in a variety of martial arts in different countries was another great side benefit.

I commend you for your desire to serve your new country. Good luck.

[kravjeff]

And thank you for your service as well !

[usnavy-233]

While no branch of service that I know of trains specifically in Krav Maga, I have seen some things in various branches that resemble a little Krav and more importantly, try to instill that never give up mindset of Krav. I’ll exclude any comments about the Navy since that’s not an option for you. I have worked with Marines in the past, most recently in a 3-week Auxiliary Security Force training that included Marine Security Cadre teaching a bunch of Navy, Air Force and Army people how to be security guards. We covered some hand to hand stuff and while it was not Krav Maga by any means, their H2H premise was that of simple strikes, knees, elbow, low kicks, etc.

As for the Army, since I haven’t worked that closely with them I can’t say with 100% accuracy what the entirety of their program consist of. I have seen part of their training video that talks about the basis they try to build from. It’s more ground work than stand-up in my opinion and because of that, I’d say the Marines are closer to Krav Maga than the Army.

Now for the career advice! 😉 If you want to get into Federal LE in the future then the choice to join the Army is a pretty clear winner. The Marines do not have an investigative law enforcement entity of their own. Because the Marines are part of the Department of the Navy all the investigative work in regards to Marine issues are done by NCIS (Naval Criminal Investigative Service). There are some Marine Special Agents that work for NCIS, but they are very few and far between.

So, in regards to complimenting your Krav, I’ll give the nod to the Marines. In regards to setting yourself up for a Federal LE job, I’d say Army. You’ll have to decide which is more important to you.

As for the other point you made on \”wanting a job which demands I keep in good shape\” the Marines and the Army are your ONLY choices. The Coast Guard, much like the Navy, by in large does not hold their people to high standards of physical fitness. I do work with one Coast Guard Officer are a fairly regular basis so while Iím not the authority on this by any means, Iíve discussed it with him before and his opinion was the Coast Guard does not make fitness a high priority.

In this regard I would rank the Marines #1 and Army #2 in terms of the branch of service holding its members to a high standard. This will also depend allot of the particular unit and who runs them. You may find that some Army commands have higher standards for their members then some Marine commands. However, regardless of the branch you decide on, the ultimate responsible for your success, in fitness and in the rest of your career, will rest on you.

Best of luck to you and I hope everything goes well.

[jburtonpdx]

\”regardless of the branch you decide on, the ultimate responsible for your success, in fitness and in the rest of your career, will rest on you. \”

Wow – sounds like good knowledge to have for any circumstance, not just military. 😀

[jjbklb]

Semper Fi..What it means-
I asked a Navy vet buddy of mine this question today & he replied that it means:

\”Hey, can I have a ride on your boat?\”

I think he was pulling my leg….

And \”MARINEs\” is an acronym for \”My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment………..sometimes\”.

on the other side
NAVY=Never Again Volunteer Yourself

[unstpabl1]

Re:

[quote=\”usnavy_233\”]
. However, regardless of the branch you decide on, the ultimate responsible for your success, in fitness and in the rest of your career, will rest on you.

This is one of the main reasons i read books on The Seals, SAS,SF and for My buddy Prekarious1, The USMC. If your wondering why I\”m sucking up to P1, its that WHEN he makes it thru that academy that freeway i’M SPEEDING ON may be his territory. 😆 I read a lot of self help books and the thing that bugs me about the current crop is they preach alot of wishing. Visuaslizeit and it will happen.The military understands the missing link..action, the ability to act is what seperates the masses. Every failure I’ve ever hadwas because of an inability to get myself to take action or continue on a path of action and every success the result of taking responsibility and pushing thru. I think in a world where were taught to look to others for help,love, guidance and security its easy to forget.

[bradm]

My son came home on leave when he was in the Marine Corps. we compared his Marine Corps Martial Arts with my Krav training. I was amazed at how close it was. Punching, kneeing, kicking, elbow techniques. They even done \”body hardening\” like we done in Level-1 classes. My forarms and thighs were pretty tough at that time and we pounded each other a little. He was tough little dude. A lot of the ground techniques were similar too. However, I was no match for him – he was too strong for me, not to say a lot younger and in better shape.

[marine-mojo]

As you can tell by my moniker I may be a little biased.

Being a Marine is not about doing a job, it isnít about completing a contract, it is about being apart of something bigger than you and taking pride in what you are doing. Once a Marine always a Marine is a reality. The only thing that I know that comes close is the cohesion of the Rangers and Airborne units within the Army.

I have never been a big proponent of trying to get into a specific military job or role so that you can transition that to your private life. I mean do you really want to waste your opportunity to do something different for a few years. I can tell you that Military looks good on any resume. Depending on who is reading that resume, Army or Marines might look better to them. You should also get the same civil service point bump (if that is used in your state) no matter the service or military occupation if you go the local PD route. Not sure about the Federal.

Shawn
The MarinesÖalso known as the Menís department of the Navy 😈

[airforcecop]

First, military service in any of the branches is admirable. I was Marine infantry, and more recently, I’ve been in the USAF Security Forces for several years.

More specifically in answer to your question. The Marines train in a hybrid art developed specifically for them. Although I haven’t been through the training, I have reviewed the techniques and observed it. In many ways it is similar to Krav, and is designed around a warrior, survival mindset. Further, they are the only service to practice H2H consistently and tie achievement in MCMAP (Marine Corps Martial Arts Program) to rank achievement, i.e. at Corporal you need to know specific techniques, at Sgt you need to know these additional techniques, etc.

The Army has gone to strictly BJJ training. I’ve been through their entry level course–before I deployed to Iraq, approximately 25 hours–and found it lacking. Don’t get me wrong – I’m not knocking BJJ in anyway. It is a superb art for what it is designed for, and a critical subset of any H2H skill set. Where the Army is lacking is that they didn’t successfully convey the relevancy of mat/dojo style techniques to real world situations where you are weighed down with body armor, weapons, etc. I also found the exclusive reliance on ground/submission techniques disturbing, as the last place I was to be in a lethal situation is on the ground, or trying to submit an enemy bent on destroying me.

Not sure about the Navy. Probably varies depending on the career field. However, one caveat – special forces type troops don’t train in MA/H2H nearly as much as the public thinks they do. Far more efficient to take out someone with a silenced weapon, and H2H training in the military, no matter how effective and critical, must be balanced against higher priority training needs. Since H2H is a warrior’s last resort, it typically gets the least emphasis, especially compared to shooting accurately.

In the AF, by and large, the only career field that sees any H2H is my own, Security Forces (military police). What is taught by the AF is inefficient, difficult to learn, and rarely practiced. To address that, several years ago I (with about 10 others) became certified LE/military Krav instructors, and began teaching it in the squadron I was in at the time. Since then, I’ve taught many individuals, but haven’t been able to incorporate it into the unit wide training program as I was able to then when I ran the unit training. I’m afraid that the emphasis on defensive tactics probably died once the driving force (me) was transferred from that unit. I’ve seen or heard of other units that bring in outside instruction, ranging from former Special Forces to BJJ, to various martial arts, etc. Often they are inapplicable to an LE or military environment, and too complex to become proficient at –but REALLY cool looking–especially to those with limited experience in reality based training. Most units, in today’s war time footing, have neither the time nor the money for extras like H2H.

I’m not sure about the Coast Guard. I suspect that much like the other services, advanced training like Krav is left to the initiative of the individual unit (and highly dependent on the temperment of the commander) as I’m unaware of any service that has adopted Krav service wide.

All in all, not to discourage you, but I think (with the exception of the Marines) that you will be disappointed in the amount of H2H actually taught and practiced in the various services. Not that you will be disappointed in the training overall, but H2H is generally not a primary concern. Your Krav training will certainly complement what you do learn in the services. However, the military does attract like minded individuals, and it is usually pretty easy to find willing training partners, as well as available schools, so you can continue your training, even if it isn’t one of the formal military programs.

Also, Shawn is right. Being military helps in both local and federal LE, but most departments could care less if you had military LE exper

[anonymous]

Learning only BJJ in the Army doesn’t seem to make much sense. I don’t know if trying to catch an insurgent in an armbar, while his buddies are shooting and coming at you from all directions, would be the most practical thing to do. 🙁

_________________
Giantkiller

[Author]

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