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Re: Moni/CKM
quote CJs Dad:LOL Brad it wasn’t anything personal, I was more trying to remind myself not to take him up on his sparring offer.He seems a decent fellow, I’d hate to kill him – but I know something he doesn’t know.
Now THAT’S Classic! 😉
Re: Moni/CKM
quote CJs Dad:LOL Brad it wasn’t anything personal, I was more trying to remind myself not to take him up on his sparring offer.He seems a decent fellow, I’d hate to kill him – but I know something he doesn’t know.
rofl2
Re: Moni/CKM
quote BradM:“….but I know something he doesn’t know.”Ah ha – the old flying axe kick wasn’t it? 🙂
more likely who the obvious Troll is. Don’t feed them Brad, but then again I got to hear Mony Mony Feed the Pony twice and got to laugh at the whole thread so maybe it’s ok to feed themrofl2
Re: Moni/CKM
The issue with Moni and CKM stems from his claims many years ago that he co-founded Krav Maga, or rather was asked to add to the system because his unit got ambushed,lost a lot of members, etc……
This was false and he has since cleaned up his story. He also used to claim that it was taught to “elite” IDF units. He has also backed off of that, claiming that he only taught it to the “elite” unit he was in.
I don’t know how “elite” his unit was or if he even belonged to one. What I can tell you is that CKM is not taught in any official capacity at the IDF. There is no more elite unit in the IDF than the counter terror school and it not used there at all. Just ask Nir Maman and he’ll tell you the same thing. As far as being top secret,classified, etc…..once again, Nir was the top instructor at the top unit and I don’t see him having issues with revealing what he did, so that part of his story seems fishy to me.
I don’t think anyone doubts his martial arts skills at all, just his claims.
Fundamentally, the systems are similar yet very different. For example, the cross block they use against knife attacks is completely different than what is normally done and no other KM organization uses it.
I’ve been around Krav Maga since 2003 and back then he called his system combat survival. KMWW started getting very popular and I guess he wanted to capitalize on that popularity and added Commando to Krav Maga, making it sexier.
His system may or may not be good. His system may of may not be better than Krav Maga, all I can say is where there is smoke, you will usually find fire.
Have a great day! If you enjoy CKM, good for you.
Re: Moni/CKM
quote BradM:“….but I know something he doesn’t know.”Ah ha – the old flying axe kick wasn’t it? 🙂
Actually, its that I’m not left handed 🙂 :abx:
Re: Moni/CKM
quote CJs Dad:Actually, its that I’m not left handed 🙂 :abx::woohoo:Love that movie
@ Plantman. Agreed. I remember all the articles and the advertising that suddenly started disappearing from the web as he was called on things. I have no problem with the system and he could be an exceptional teacher/fighter but it becomes a simple matter of integrity.
Re: Moni/CKM
quote unstpabl1::woohoo:Love that movie@ Plantman. Agreed. I remember all the articles and the advertising that suddenly started disappearing from the web as he was called on things. I have no problem with the system and he could be an exceptional teacher/fighter but it becomes a simple matter of integrity.
I belong to a JCC here in Miami. There is a CKM instructor there and on his website it says the regular infantry is taught “normal” krav maga, while the special forces are taught CKM, Hagana, Lotar, etc……..
He seems like a likeable fellow who cares about his students and no doubt has been fed his info from Moni. I have discussed this with him and changes to his website are supposedly under way.
It sucks that I have to constantly have to explain to potential students the differences between the 2 systems.
If it had stayed Combat Survival(has a nice ring to it) he would have avoided a lot of headaches I imagine.
Cest la vie!
Re: Moni/CKM
I think some of these comments regarding CKM are actually valid. I agree it is not traditionally what is called “Krav Maga”, but I think it is an element of it. Would you consider brazilian jiu jitsu not a jiu jitsu because some elements were changed? The martial arts and self defense is a living entity always changing and CKM has added other elements to traditional krav to form a different form that is just if not more effective in certain situations. P.S I am no troll, im a father, soldier, and husband. I don’t have time to troll boards.
Re: Moni/CKM
Its not a technique thing its an integrity thing. His marketing practice lured people in under false pretense using a bait and switch tactic that has since been exposed all over the net.
If he had just used some generic reality based self defense name it wouldn’t really have ever been an issue.
As you can see by now even though this is a KMW owned forum there are many different organizations represented here the issue has always been with the use of the term “Krav Maga” when what is being taught is not what is generally recognized as the principal based system we all practice.
There was a guy on the west coast named Frank Dux who in the 80/90s had a Ninjitsu school because he was capitalizing on the Ninja craze. Except he had no curriculum. His system was based on whatever his head instructor on the time knew. Most of it was actually Kenpo depending on when you were there and who the head instructor was.
Now there was nothing wrong with the Kenpo techniques being taught or those instructors but the thing is people signed up to be Ninjas.
Now I’m sure what he’s teaching has some merit, and if it helps to save someone’s life or protect someone’s family even better. But lets face facts the guy misrepresented his credentials in order to capitalize on the popularity of Krav Maga.
Plain and simple – zero credibility = zero respect.Re: Moni/CKM
[quote=IdDropU;53175 P.S I am no troll, im a father, soldier, and husband. I don’t have time to troll boards.[/quote]
Implied net threats are classic trolldom and more importantly as a soldier, father and husband extremely childish. I understand the need to stick up and defend someone you admire and trust but like everything else there are positive ways to do that and negative. I’d say you illicted very little response as most of us simply ignored it and certainly didn’t help to bring a warm fuzzy feeling toward Moni
in most of the posts that I recall about Moni there was little discussion on the effectiveness of the tech but the source. Moni flat out claimed that he was the co-creator of Krav and work closely with Imi. this has been disproven as has many other claims. They USE to be all over CKM’s advertising but have since disappeared.
Does that mean his stuff isn’t effective? No. Does it make him a bad person? maybe…maybe not. What it simply means is that he misrepresented himself and people that have been around are aware of it
Now, I’m glad your wife is safe. I’m glad you have found a system and an instructor that you can believe in. But please understand that most of us have legitimate reservations because of Moni’s self promotion. In that instance he has no one to blame but himself and to my recollection hasn’t done much to rectify that
be safe
Re: Moni/CKM
Hi All
It’s been a while since I posted on these boards. I moved to the back of beyond so it’s taken a while to get the internet back (and in view of recent events, moving out of London may have proved a very effective self defence strategy). I apologise if I’m saying something that’s already old news. I haven’t been able to check all that’s been posted in the last few years. I’m just pleasantly surprised that my log-in still works.
Anyway to get to the point:
I’ll stay out of the politics re Moni’s bona fides. I can however comment on his teaching methods/CKM system.
The Krav group I’m associated with did have some dealings with Moni and for a while it looked like we might go down the CKM route. For various reasons that’s gone by the wayside. I did however have an opportunity to train with Moni.
Firstly, as an instructor he’s very charismatic and presents his concepts well. As to the style itself however I’m not sure it would be immediately recognizable to most on this board as Krav. Now I’m all into the ‘adopt what works for you, abandon what doesn’t’ approach. That’s one of the many reasons I love Krav. Moni’s style is very different from what you might be used to. Some of the basics are the same but then again it’s only what you’d expect from any decent self defence system; there aren’t that many ways to efficiently use your bodies natural weapons.
The main difference is in the actual self defence techniques. Friends who are into Aikido say a lot of the moves were familiar to them. Apart from watching “Under Siege” about a thousand times i have no real experience of Aikido so can’t comment personally on that. However I did find that a lot of the moves were a little over complicated for a simple minded soul like myself. There was a lot of getting of line and using the attackers momentum etc. The style seems a bit more ‘graceful’ than the KM I’m used to. it certainly looks better (in a wow factor sense) but I’m not sure that’s a good test for effectiveness.
Most of the techniques required a higher skill level than you’d need for the KM equivalent. I think you’d have to practice a lot longer in CKM to achieve the same level of achievement than you’d get in KM in a much shorter time. I think there was also a lot more that could go wrong with the techniques than in the ‘original’ KM equivalent.
Essentially CKM seemed to break the KISS rule that is pretty much writ in stone as far as I’m concerned.
Is it likely to be as effective on the street for a ‘normal’ person? I’d say a definite ‘no’. the techniques were hard enough to pull off in a classroom setting. I have severe doubts about whether I’d be able to rise/sink to the level required to make them work when i was pumped full of adrenaline and ****ing myself.
The defences against a knife attack are quite effective if you get them right; but they do depend a lot on getting you positioning spot on and your timing near perfect.
On the positive side, CKM has an interesting approach to gun disarms. They rely on very quick (almost ‘slight of hand’) to snatch the weapon away from the attacker. There’s no simultaneous counter attack. That makes it quicker of course but you’re still left with a fully functioning attacker. No problem if you’ve now got a working firearm; but maybe not so handy if (as is likely to be the case in the UK) the weapon is a replica or a re-activated blank firer that may take your hand off if you use it. You’ve now got to get busy with someone who’s p***ed off with you and knows he’s going to have to switch to his ‘A’ game on you. If you were in a military situation though where you know the weapon is real and your enemy is wearing body armour/other protection it may well be worth learning. Athough in that situation you’d probably have a weapon of your own or a mate who could shoot the other guy for you.
So in summary, although I’ve borrowed a few techniques fro my toolkit, CKM generally is not for me. A very skilled and committed martial artist could no doubt get to the requisite level to make the techniques work for them a significant percentage of the time but even if they did I’m not sure, in terms of effectiveness, the end result would be any better than you’d get with the equivalent KM move in regard to survivability. You would look flashier on any CCTV footage though. As i’d always want the authorities to think I was an average citizen who just managed to land a lucky blow (or 5) though I’m not sure I’d want that.
Regards
Al
Re: Moni/CKM
Cjs Dad, I don’t know if your familiar with the ruling of the Israeli courts when certain factions were trying to patent the term Krav Maga. They ruled that Krav Maga was a generic term for traditional Israeli self defense and its offshots. Though it may not look like the Krav that is familiar to you CKM is a form of Krav. I would be surprised if the Krav you studied (and Ive been reading you are quite good at) is the original form of Krav created by Imi or his early followers. The art grows and encompasses and overlaps other forms.
As to Moni’s credibility and integrity: I have been around many soldiers and heard exaggerated stories. 1 enemy becomes 10 and 10 becomes a battalion. Moni is running a business and who hasn’t exaggerated to get ahead in their employement? The fact remains that he WAS in the IDF, that he WAS an instructor of defense and fitness. Does it take away from him if he wasn’t an elite commando? Perhaps in the eyes of some but knowing the man and his effective technique I don’t find it cause to totaly destroy his credibility or style.
Unstpabl 1- I thank you for your words about my wife and I agree that it was in poor taste to threaten anyone well not threaten challenge, as I said I was hot at the time and I believe I have sufficiently apoligized, I hope. Moni didn’t claim to be a co-creator, he said he was asked to expand on it which I think could be considered totaly plausible. At a very young age he was a champion martial artist coming into military service wouldn’t it be smart to utilize a fighter of his caliber?Re: Moni/CKM
quote IdDropU:Moni is running a business and who hasn’t exaggerated to get ahead in their employement? The fact remains that he WAS in the IDF, that he WAS an instructor of defense and fitness. Does it take away from him if he wasn’t an elite commando?Yes, because he claims he was. He was advertising a product that isn’t what he advertised.
When individuals fluff their resumes, I call them ethically challenged. If a catch them doing it, I don’t hire them. If I catch them after the fact, I fire them. When a business does it, it’s called anything from false advertising to fraud.
As others have indicated, Moni may be a very good martial artist, he may be a good instructor and he may have a workable system. If so, he could have built his reputation on his real track record instead of trying to get a head start by selling false credentials.
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