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I read the first post about people bashing krav maga and I thought I would start this post to ask this question. Since Krav Maga is from Isreal and has alot of \”Western\” ideas, do you think that martial artist from a more \”Eastern\” background may consider it weak ? Do you think that philisophical ideas are hindering them from understanding krav maga ? Finally , why is it that in America we seem to have this idea that western martial arts such as boxing and wrestling are inferoir to eastern martial arts ? Any ideas ?
I think Krav probably has more \”Eastern\” ideas than \”Western\” ideas.
I’d say that, as happens, martial artists with a more \”Eastern\” background will most certainly think that their art is the best — doesn’t every one?
What makes you think that \”Eastern\” martial artists don’t understand Krav Maga?
I don’t think that \”we\” seem to have the idea that boxing and wrestling are inferior to eastern martial arts. Although, Kung-Fu movies have done a lot to promote martial arts, and martial arts are more all-encompassing, and generally much more self-defense oriented, while boxing and wrestling are clearly sport oriented.
I think most ingelligent people can see the weakness in knowing how to use your hands well, but nothing else, or knowing how to pin people to the ground, but nothing else. Still, both boxing and wrestling can be very successfully used in self-defense.
Few things:
I think some of the skepticism stems from some implication people make about KM students. In the arguments I have seen/read/heard, there is some misconception that Krav is marketed as the end-all, be-all self defense system. Those with little knowledge believe we discrouage cross-training. To me, this explains why discussion normally occurs as \”should I do Krav or x?\” instead of \”what if do Krav IN ADDITION to x?\”.
Most KM instructors, and probably all the top brass in L.A., encourage cross-training. For instance, I know of Krav Instructors that currently train in muay thai, BJJ, MMA, Kung Fu, boxing, and senshido. Heck, I just ran into an instructor friend of mine training with members of Brazilian Top Team. Basically, people have this notion that Krav students exclusively train Krav.
Lastly:
\”Finally , why is it that in America we seem to have this idea that western martial arts such as boxing and wrestling are inferoir to eastern martial arts?\”
??? How often do you see \”Eastern style MA competition\” on U.S. Pay Per View?
When you say \”western MAs\”, why don’t you include BJJ or vale tudo?
Who cares who’s bashing Krav?
We know our system works and works well.
People who bash other things are obviously insecure about their own style.
Every style has something to offer.
I think the fact that you’re getting so analytical about why people bash it is a direct reflection of you insecurities with Krav Maga.
What are you worried about a couple of Tae Kwon Do guys making fun of you ?
I just don’t get why anyone cares who is bashing who and what.
While it may be that the public finds eastern martial arts superior, among martial artists, it is often the other way around. People who do asian martial arts and decide to compete and cross train often do so by focusing on boxing and wrestling skills. And people in Western martial arts often have little respect for eastern martial arts (at least boxers and wrestlers, because they think its a whole lot of yelling and punching air). Eastern martial artists often get into JKD after reading Bruce Lee’s stuff, and become self-hating eastern martial artists.
In my opinion, the differences aren’t that big- they are just all designed under different contexts, but follow the general dictations of physics (except maybe wushu!) and human body movement/physiology.I think we had this thread on the old forum, but I thought i would share a few things from a non-KM person….Me 😀
1)KM is only 50 years old, too young to be any good
2)KM has no forms, how can you learn without 150 forms to practice?
3)KM claims to be made from scratch, when everyone knows it’s not
4)KM is just a better version of Tai Bo, a bunch of dancing and hitting focus mitts
5)KM’s marketing is too flashy for a real combat art, needs more skulls and muscely pit pull pictures (no offense TOPitbull 😀 )
6)KM people just cross train and then repackage what they learn and call it KM
7)KM offers no esoteric Philosophy of wholeness to balance out the violent warrior they create
8)KM doesn’t do sport fighting cause they know their bogus
9)never heard of it, can’t be goodWhile all these have a true aspect, they are also irrelevant and mostly wrong, i.e. the conclusion from the true aspect are false. No need to defend, please, I am just pointing out where people are coming from.
I think a big part of it is that we saw alot of those repackaged arts in the USA in the 1980’s. People would start their own \”System\” and be the Grand Master and put advertising in IKF magazine. The Martial Art Culture just assumed Krav Maga was another one of those….
Most traditional Asian Arts are so watered down in the west the tradition is all they have left. They go to Boxing and wrestling to make their fancy moves work cause they don’t have sparring. Boxers and wrestlers go to Asian arts because once you can fight and win, you seek out disipline and something more for the soul, i.e. forms and culture.
Since KM comes from Isreal, it does have this philosophy/culture aspect, Judhaism, but I don’t think thats a requirement. which brings me to point ten
10)Jew hate
This insedious monster creeps in across America whether people realize it or not, but they will never admit it.
Don’t kill the messenger. 😕
I do care what other people think. But as I age, I care a little less as time goes on. I trained in karate for 9 years. I did enjoy it. Many other Black belts from my club had the some of the same concerns that I had. We each trained for many different reasons also. But we all had one in common. Self-defense on the street. I had conversations with a few other Black belts and they all had concerns on how they would actually perform in a fight. Unsure. Including myself. It may sound funny but after my first month of Krav Maga I felt a whole lot more confident with my fighting skills. In my opinion, anyone who has trained in Krav Maga and Karate would have to agree Krav Maga is better for street fights, witch should translate to self-defense. So who cares what anyone says. My opinion counts most for me. Plus I like the Krav Maga training clothes a whole lot more than a gi regardless of belt. I also think it takes a lot of courage to change from a so-called expert to a beginner.
I think a lot of the bashing of krav comes from how krav people bash other martial arts. You always hear on these threads that this or that art is too flashy, too structured, too compliant, not realistic, too ritualistic, too \”sport\” etc, and practitioners of those arts become defensive, and say \”well, look at krav maga! Its just a combination of kickboxing and gutterfighting\”, \”Well, my art is 2000 years old, how about yours?\”, \”you think your art is so good, but lets see how well it does when I take you to the ground\”, \”You think you’re so great because you’re a wannabe special ops guy\” and any number of \”bashes\”. Either from TMA people, or from sportfighting people who think that biting and eye gouging won’t work in real life. I’m not trying to say that anyone is right. Just that everyone would be better off with tactfulness in what they say.
At any rate, every martial art gets bashed on the internet- its pretty hard to find any style of kung fu or tae kwon do thats not bashed. Ever heard of bullshido.com? Thats all they do from what I’ve seen (I could be wrong, but it is kind of in their mission statement). Something about the internet is quite conductive of bashing and such.I’ve studied a lot of eastern arts (TKD, judo, JKD, wing chun) and the coolest thing about Krav is that it is adaptable to better ideas. None of that \”Master Wong Long Ho,in the 2nd century AD, determined that this is the correct way to defend against a front kick, so this is the only way to defend against a front kick\” BS.
Krav is easy to bash because it is designed to quickly teach self defense. There is no induction period or any of the mystic \”eastern\” spiritual BS. It is purely for self-defense. As for eastern arts being \”better\” than western arts, does anyone remeber PKA (professional karate assoc) kickboxing from the early 80’s? It was dominated by mediocre boxers who would just destroy the karate (TKD mostly) guys. They had to change the rules to require a minimum number of kicks per round. So the boxers would throw the minimum number of kicks per round and still win. Jujitsu is also an excellent example, the Brazilians (western) took JJ to a whole new level in a few decades compared to what the japanese did with it over centuries.
\”None of that \”Master Wong Long Ho,in the 2nd century AD, determined that this is the correct way to defend against a front kick, so this is the only way to defend against a front kick\” BS\”
\”There is no induction period or any of the mystic \”eastern\” spiritual BS.\”
\”Brazilians (western) took JJ to a whole new level in a few decades compared to what the japanese did with it over centuries.\”
Although there is some validity to all of these statements, you can see what I mean about krav people bashing other arts, creating or continuing the cycle.
b.j.j bashing Krav
b.j.j bashing Krav
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