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A lot has been written lately about the weaknesses of krav, krav practioners and of course the strength of Boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, MMA.
Yes training in these other systems will improve your Krav. Why? Because they are part of the delivery system that makes up krav. Imi was a boxer and even I a remedial level MT trainee can show you the similarites in mT tech. Think what someone like CJ’s Dad could show us as he cornered MT fighters out of House Of Champions among other things
The real reason is that krav IS MMA for the street. Its Focus is REALITY BASED SELF DEFENSE. Or as La Revancha says its a kick em’ in the nuts, poke em’ in the eyes system not a martial ART and definitely not a sport.
With that said many have used the skillz to compete, but that is a different game and adaptions need to be made.
For instance I like 10th Planet Jits, but could care less about submission grappling. Its a one on one experience w/o weapons. Not the reason I train which is fitness and Self Defense. Last fight I was in was 6 on 1. I got my ass KO’d from behind. I was lucky ….I survived
most of this may be understood here, but in light of recent threads I thought it needed to be reiterated
Sreet violence is ugly. It’s brutal, unlike a ring fight, even cage which because of rules make it more spectator friendly
I think of the ring brutality of a Marvin Hagler and the beauty of Sugar Ray. Did rules help Sugar? does chuck Liddel have great tech?. good technique can be important but it’s not the determining factor in violence. Butality and S&C is. IE Brock Lesnar
I don’t claim to know much about krav, but I do understand some of the main tenets
Krav trains from disadvantage. That alone will make techs look awkward. Krav trains from fatigue. A fatigued fighter tech deteriorates. period> I don’t care who they are.
Techs are an attempt to organize chaos. chaos by it’s very nature cannot be organized. It’s messy as would UFC fights if you pulled the ref outta the ring. UFC is not even mMA anymore, it’s kickboxing w/ takedowns. Ask a jits guy
Boxers< MMA fighters devote a hell of a lot more time than an hour a day to training and their training is sport specific. They don’t have to consider, weapons, multiples, family protection and getting the F%$# outta dodge as the situation deteriorates.Their evenly matched sizewise etc etc Krav fills the void for the everyman and even special forces soldiers. This is not a krav promo. This is fact
krav also is a princple driven system not a technique driven one. technique systems fall apart under duress
If bored, youtube Uraih Faber in Bali. He tells a story where he gets in a bar fight and is chased all over town. Thank god for his skills and conditioning. he survived but I bet he’d tell you he looked like ****. I wonder if the rules he trained under might have hindered his brutality. Either way great story. worth looking up
There is a documentry on youtube that I find very inspiring on the IOWA WRESTlING style. Iowa defines its style as WHERE TECHNIQUE TAKES A BACKSEAT TO BRUTALTY. Pretty krav like if you ask me
If one has any doubt to the effectiveness of this style…well then take a look at Iowa’s record which at one point was 20 national titles in 27 years. A record for the ages
IOWA DOC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QdcHrPotm4&feature=related
Enjoy
i was bored tonight. thus the post. Maybe you’ll find some value. If not the Iowa documentry is awesome and Uriah telling the story will make up for the time you wasted reading the post:D:
Re: Perfect Technique
Nice read, Michael – thanks! My take is that we need to be results-focused. As you mentioned, Krav Maga is about training from disadvantage so that we’re prepared for the worst-case scenario. It’s not always going to be pretty.
Kevin M. talked recently about Krav Maga being a fighting style. Yeah, maybe, whatever. For me, it’s about teaching survival skills. And, as you point out, that ain’t always about style.
Re: Perfect Technique
Exactly Steve. As I’ve said here quite a few times I’m very fundamentally focused because of my teaching acting.
i can only speak from my journey in this stuff and the short time I did krav. But the 3 krav instructors I trained with La Revancha, Sam Sade and CJ’s Dad broke down techs and combatives bit by bit and built them back up. CJ’s Dad in particular started with simply moving the foot then added the jab and on and on to build combos in his Fight class. Rare you get that kind of detail in a MT class and I’ve trained with some really well known Thais
It’s just that krav training keeps you under constant pressure ….like a battle. In the chaos of a class, you can choose for today to focus on form, but in the chaos of a fight its survival
Or as Patton would say Speed, Surprise and violence of action
Re: Perfect Technique
If you look at any forum you’ll see a wave of MMA people claiming it’s “better” than “insert your art/system”. The answer to everything (to them) is just train BJJ or MT etc.
Re: Perfect Technique
IT is very foolish to think that MMA is not good for the street. A MMA fighter would be beyond devasting in any street encounter.
BJJ is extremely good for street fighting. If the fight ends up on the ground the BJJ guy (even with 6 months of trainning) will pull off easy submissions or ground and pound.
Just your basic Boxer would have no trouble winning 98 percent of street fighting matches.Re: Perfect Technique
MMA against multiple attackers will work well too. An MMA guy has tons of ring experience and can take a punch and deliver one.
That said…. KRAV is very good as well for the street too.Re: Perfect Technique
Lions, please go ask your instructors to show you the differences between an assault in the street and MMA competition…
Re: Perfect Technique
Great post. I think some of the comparisons made with KM and other ‘systems’ is really not an apples to apples comparison.
Sometimes I think the only way to prove it would be to throw a bunch of well trained KM guys into the most dangerous place (terrorists, rapist, other psycho idiots looking to kill you) on earth along side a bunch of MMA guys. I think the body count in the end would tell the story. Now in defense of MMA take that same situation and throw some KM folks into the cage with MMA guys and the results would be different unless there were no rules and the KM people got nasty with techniques that would get an MMA fighter banned for life. It’s all about what you look to get out of it.
I’m not a professional or amateur fighter…..just a dude working in an office that want to protect himself and family if the need arises. Even if that mean kicking someone in the groin and getting everyone the heck out of there.
Re: Perfect Technique
Very nice post Michael, I enjoyed the read.
At the risk of sounding argumentative I have to strongly disagree that MMA/Jitz will hold up within a multiple attacker scenario for one specific reason – its multiple attackers.
In a mutual combat situation (each individual knowing they are in a fight) the MMA/TMA practitioner absolutely can rely on their training to kick in and dominate.
The problem comes when you add the variables or additional combatants.
Rightly so individuals are trained to mono focus at the task at hand, the man standing in front of them. That is what they are conditioned to do that is what comes out of them under duress and that is their down fall.
In Krav Maga we refer to the fight as being organic, fluid, ever changing call it what you will but its not static – its MOVING.
In many of our popular drills (shark tank, gauntlet, ring of fire) a student learns to move from one attack to the next, never sitting in the pocket, constantly looking for where the next attack is coming from.
MMA/TMA students don’t practice this and if they do its rare and at a higher level of their training.The bottom line is I think its about mindset, the individual who is trained to expect the unexpected is arguably better prepared than one whose training is to have tunnel vision on a single opponent.
That’s just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Train hard, go home safe
S.Re: Perfect Technique
quote CJs Dad:In a mutual combat situation (each individual knowing they are in a fight) the MMA/TMA practitioner absolutely can rely on their training to kick in and dominate.The problem comes when you add the variables or additional combatants.
Rightly so individuals are trained to mono focus at the task at hand, the man standing in front of them. That is what they are conditioned to do that is what comes out of them under duress and that is their down fall.
MMA/TMA students don’t practice this and if they do its rare and at a higher level of their training.
The bottom line is I think its about mindset, the individual who is trained to expect the unexpected is arguably better prepared than one whose training is to have tunnel vision on a single opponent.
That’s just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Train hard, go home safe
S.
Edited to reiterate the main differences in Krav from an MMA type skill set. FOCUS OF TRAINING…It’s not a difference in technique. in most cases the combatives are the same
much better said than my post. and the reason as much as I love MT it doesn’t fufill my end game
Re: Perfect Technique
I think Krav is great . Dont get me wrong. But most MMA guys are extremely deadly. They can take far more damage than a Krav guy and can deliver far greater blows.
Just saying 2 hours of MT a week or boxing will really help your Krav.
My knees and kicks are going to be far better when I Take some MT in June.Re: Perfect Technique
Last time I checked, MMA guys weren’t any more bullet proof, knife proof, stick proof, etc than any other guys…
Re: Perfect Technique
quote Don:Lions, please go ask your instructors to show you the differences between an assault in the street and MMA competition…If you are in Israel and have to fight some very physically fit arab guy then you will see the real definition of a suicidal hand to hand fighter. ( has nothing to do with suicide bombs )
It will be like what the U.S. Troops in the nineteen forties experienced firsthand with the japanese army fighters who vowed to fight in deadly insane hand to hand fights to the death on the Pacific islands.
Only 100x worse with the arabs who many times are very physically fit and extremely suicidal fighters. They will not stop for any thing not even injuries sustained in the fight will stop them. That is how crazy and extremely dangerous the arabs are.
This is nothing compared to the American street thug who operates more like a businessman. They don’t want to get hurt and just take what you have.
The arabs are a whole different bunch of hand to hand fighters. That is what the Jewish people had to experience in 1948 to secure our victory with G-d’s help.
Re: Perfect Technique
The Japanese fighters were as tough as they come in WW2. They were well trainned in knives among other things. And surrender was never an option.
Congrads to Israel for proving their “Iron Dome” system works as several terrorist rockets were destroyed over Southern Israel. Also over 35 Terrorist of Hamas killed in 2 days. Good job.Re: Perfect Technique
Many of the Israelites currently living in Israel would give anything to have the peace that the U.S.A. has. ( no day or nightly rocket attacks ) Thank you Lions.
p.s. it is very hard for some Israelis visiting their families in the U.S.A. to relax and go to bed. They are up all night and it is very strange for them to have some peace and quiet.
The thing to remember is the Iron Dome system is not 100 % rocket-proof but I am sure in some of the hardest hit communities.
It will be a strange but a very wonderful experience for the Israeli people to finally get a few good nights of sleep.
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