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This link is one Sifu’s thoughts on sparring’s usefulness for self defense training. I believe this has merit. One of the “knocks” on KM (and other systems) by the MMA, BJJ crowd is lack (or amount) of sparring. What is not realized is that sparring in BJJ, JUDO, BOXING, MT etc is a perfect way to train for a fight with a given rule set. Self defense is much different.
Your thoughts?
Re: Philosophy on Sparring
Oh….and….I’m not saying Krav doesnt spar (of course we do) or that Krav does not spar enough…I think KM sparrring is appropriate.
Re: Philosophy on Sparring
Beats me….
I see my sons Karate class and the adult class after his class some times. Almost no sparing, no bag hitting, etc. They stand there and pratice the same move over and over and over ad nauseum.
My first day of Krav (for the parts I could actually stand up) I was kicking someone else with a bag between us. Granted he wasn’t kicking back or anything but mentally I was training my mind to accept and not fear a human aggressor.
So this….muted sparring…. that I do at level one is great. I can’t say other yellow belts in other disciplines get the same exposure. At least not from what I have seen from what the Austin Society of Karate is putting out. But in all fairness I have not attended their adult class as a student nor have I enrolled for a full semester.
So, as always, take it with a grain of salt
Re: Philosophy on Sparring
Point also being thaty sparring (I mean with partner not bag work) is only part of what’s important. Some arts like Judo or BJJ must spar otherwise how else can you train? Others never spar so we have the constant argument. I think this man’s philosophy hits home and I believe KM covers sparring well. Not too much emphasis because it’s not the best way to train for SD unlike sport fighting….not too little because we need to be under stress.
Re: Philosophy on Sparring
IMO sparring is essential to learning KM or any type of SD if only because it gives you confidence in what you have learned and teaches you a good lesson in something that is as close as you can get to a real fight situation.
In KM you can’t allow yourself to practice real street fighting b/c real street fighting will injure you or your partner and just the relapse back into health will take too long for any actual learning to take place.
Therefore, there is protection and some rules (i.e. You don’t poke your opponent’s eyes out). Doing the minimum to protext yourself limits the realism of sparring but it still holds that it is important for training in SD even if the only thing it offers is some confidence it gives you that you were able to struggle with another person and actually performed.
At the end of the day though, it is not the most important part of KM. People who say they train in KM but mostly just spar or actually fight, are not training in KM, they are training in a fight class.
Re: Philosophy on Sparring
I think sparring gives two things. The first is that it helps take away the natural fear you have when you face an aggressor. The second is that it gets you used to being hit. Remember the first time you were hit hard in the head when full sparing. The shock of it. After the first few hundred times that goes.
Otherwise I dont think sparring brings anything. It is not the ‘finish the job’ type of fighting that krav teaches.
Re: Philosophy on Sparring
“Remember the first time you were hit hard in the head when full sparing. The shock of it. After the first few hundred times that goes.”
As done the brain.
Re: Philosophy on Sparring
MMA and BJJ,
Man these guys are bugging me. Seriously in Las Vegas I have to deal with every MMA wannabe and BJJ “stud” that are constantly bashing Krav Maga. It is really funny. They have convinced themselves that what they do is “a real fight”. It is not of course but you can’t argue that with these idiots because they are convinced of their skill set.
What technique would MMA have against a knife or a gun? What about multiple attackers? What about a surprise attack in the parking lot? The techniques they use and therefore spar with are not based on a premise of being at a disadvantage. The training has no unknown factors such as weapons, other attackers, enviornment etc……
So the sparring is not even close to being real.I have seen Krav classes where students are encouraged to stand in front of an attacker and basically brawl. This is stupid. Sparring in this manner should be avoided at all cost. It is not a battle to see how tough you are. It should be about applications of techniques presented in earlier lessons. Getting off line. Hit and run. Constantly scanning the room for other aggresors,opportunities for escape and objects which can be used as a weapon. Not boxing, kickboxing, MMA or BJJ.
There has been a switch in mindset from some Krav instructors. MMA has leaked into what we do and I hate it. We don’t teach like this at our school. We don’t allow students to work like this at our school. We focus on principles and believe that Krav Maga is a fully intergrated system. Which means that every thing we do in the class has a direct line to practical application of the technique. From the warm up, to the stretch, to the sparring, to the self defense and so on….. Sparring is valuable for sure. Proper sparring is priceless!
Re: Philosophy on Sparring
quote Psyops:There has been a switch in mindset from some Krav instructors. MMA has leaked into what we do and I hate it. We don’t teach like this at our school. We don’t allow students to work like this at our school. We focus on principles and believe that Krav Maga is a fully intergrated system. Which means that every thing we do in the class has a direct line to practical application of the technique. From the warm up, to the stretch, to the sparring, to the self defense and so on….. Sparring is valuable for sure. Proper sparring is priceless!LOL I just gave this speech in Fight class last night.
Re: Philosophy on Sparring
I guess if you are attacked by one person willing to follow rules on a nice soft matt BJJ can be useful. Just watched WEC last night. Guys voluntarily going on their backs as part of strategy then spending the next 3 minutes there. I had to imagine being in that position on concrete….ouch.
Re: Philosophy on Sparring
Unless you’re pretty sure you can finish the fight faster that way. Let’s face, a real street fight, an unplanned confrontation with someone drunk or way too emotional, will probably go to the ground anyway.
Re: Philosophy on Sparring
“Let’s face, a real street fight, an unplanned confrontation with someone drunk or way too emotional, will probably go to the ground anyway.”
There’s ZERO evidence to support this.
Re: Philosophy on Sparring
Ryan, no evidence besides my experience as an inexperienced young bouncer back in the day. Of course, I’d do things differently now than back then, knowing what I know. An unskilled fight usually does hit the ground, though. Check any number of Youtube bar brawls or street fights with dumbarses that don’t know how to keep the fight up instead of low.
My point is that it’s not always a bad thing to go to the ground with someone. If that’s your strong suit, why wouldn’t you want to hit the ground as quick as possible and finish the fight? And if you’re on the ground you should probably at least know how to defend and counter from that position, right? I train in Krav and Combative Tactics and both of these classes teach about an equal amount of standing and ground fighting. Certainly there must be a reason for it.Re: Philosophy on Sparring
Cook,
Sorry but I disagree with you. If you train to avoid the ground as you should be doing in Krav Maga, the chances of you being taken to the ground are reduced significantly. The chances that you will stay on the ground are even lower. If you choose to do so its your business but I don’t suggest it.
Two guys who don’t know how to fight = ground. They will wrestle and roll around. Krav practitioner understands the obvious danger and avoids the ground. If your instructor is encouraging you to stay on the ground he/she is not doing you any favors and they most certainly are not following the principles of Krav Maga!
If you are spending time in a Krav Maga class fighting on the ground as much as you are avoiding the ground I would love to hear an instructor from your school explain this! This is the problem with this MMA mentality. You stated that it is “not bad to take someone to the ground, if that’s your strong suit” WTF? Strong suit? I don’t mean to jump on you but this is nonsense.
The longer you stay on the ground in the street the more you are in danger. This is a fact. This attitude can be directly traced to the source in Israel. Ground fighting is far more dangerous in the street. I’m sorry my man but you have been led astray. MMA IS NOT KRAV MAGA AND THERE IS NO PLACE FOR IT IN THE SYSTEM!
Re: Philosophy on Sparring
I think anyone writing an in depth article on the pros and cons of sparring should be well versed in sparring and self defense situations or it is all just theoretical.
I think there are too many people that have polarized sides- there are sport art people that think sparring is the ultimate, and there are others who just drill tactics “too dangerous” for sparring. I think this misses the boat of aliveness. All tactics can be trained with aliveness in some way- you just have to avoid ego, train smart, and be creative. If the JKD crowd can train kino mutai in a live way, just about anything can be done by varying amount and type of protective gear and intensity, varying from high intensity sparring to safe targets and methods to low intensity sparring including attacks to less safe areas like the neck, groin, eyes etc.
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