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i would like to get opinions on a statement i read over and over again.
(to paraphrase) \”why listen to hard rock while training? if you need hard to fight off an attacker your in trouble because it won’t be playing?\”
i personally never understood that statement. Music helps get my ass on the training floor. It helps get my heart rate up. That’s about it.
(here comes the Internet ego) i HAVE been in several self-defense situations. No, music was never playing. It didn’t NEED to be playing. The fact that someone sucker punched me was enough to make me fight back.
In fact, (apparently) my girlfriend was SCREAMING ‘instructions’ in my ear one time (in a ‘fight’) and i didn’t hear a word. (auditory shutdown? maybe)
Music to be isn’t some stimuli that is required to react. It’s a force that makes me hit harder, faster, longer. Which in turn means i’m more prepared to hit back when i need to to in real life.
ACTUALLY, i’d go as far as to say that SOME songs give me an adrenaline dump that comes closer to the adrenaline dump i’ve felt in real altercations THAN REACTION DRILLS.
In the real altercation i didn’t need music. The 225 lb attacker caused MORE than enough of an adrenaline dump. As i said… if the theme to Rocky was playing via a live orchestras… i wouldn’t have known (during real attacks)
Maybe some of you have been fortunate enough to never have to defend yourself? Maybe my experience is unique? All i know is that music is ONE of the things that keeps me training (after 8 years in krav?) and i’ve NEVER \”needed\” ANYTHING except the mere PRESENCE of an attacker to get
my heart pumping and ready to ‘go.’i honestly want opinions (hell that’s what this board is for… maybe i’m completely crazy lol)
much love
I agree with you here. I think that music is a great training aid. It can help you keep pushing when you want to stop. It can also take your mind away from the pain. The point of training is to be over prepared for an altercation. If I train light, I fight light. If I train hard, I fight hard. There is no way to accurately simulate a real self-defence situtation on a training floor. You partner(s) are not actually going to hurt you.
I also know about the sensory overload. I hear people, but it does not compute. It just falls into the background noise.
In training, music is helpful. In a fight, it is irrelevant.
Listening to music while doing cardio is all about keeping the mind focused on something other than the monatany of doing cardio. I actually listen to marine cadence when I run for the exact same reason. It gives me a something to focus on rather than thinking about what I’m doing and all the reasons I should stop. When it comes to music in KM classes I notice that nobody is actually listening to the music when they are working on technique or in the middle of combatives, they are to focused on the situation. I personally like when we turn the music up very loud during drills (self defense attacks or combatives), not to enjoy the music, but to make the drill harder removing the auditory senses. We also turn the light off and on to mess with our vision. Believe me the only time anybody has ever mentioned the music is during stretches otherwise it might as well be street noise.
I think music during cardio or weightlifting is fine, although I don’t ususally use it. When I’m in KM class however, even in fighting class, I’d rather have no music playing, because in those situations I am there to learn a skill and I find it much harder to concentrate on learning that skill if there is that constant background noise. It’s also harder to understand what your partner (or even teacher) is saying.
I also don’t believe it’s true that you somehow \”need\” the music to get aggressive. We didn’t have music in the beginning, many years back, and everyone was able to perform just fine.
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GiantkillerRe: question on musical beliefs.
[quote=\”ViCious\”]i would like to get opinions on a statement i read over and over again. to paraphrase) \”why listen to hard rock while training? if you need hard to fight off an attacker your in trouble because it won’t be playing?\”i personally never understood that statement.
The idea behind the statement is to make your training as realistic as possible. The thing I liked about krav when i first heard of it was they use to do scenario training. Go down into the garage and create engage or no engage scenarios, knife on the floor go for it, drunken goggles. Don’t know if they still do.It can be a bit dangerous, its serious business on a serious subject with serious consequences, win or lose. Most reality based instructors want everyone present and are trying to pull you out of the mentality of boxercise, so they use that statement to keep people on what this stuff is about,saving a life. Yeah training is fun, realieves stress, but the techs being taught are about tearing an eyeball out, maiming someone, killing them. I should go more graphic, but I trust you enough to see what I’m getting at. The reality trainers see music as a distraction to the most important aspect of this training \”MINDSET\”, though they may use it to create chaos,anxiety, adreniline, etc
Music helps get my ass on the training floor. It helps get my heart rate up. That’s about it.
I’m absolutely in agreement with you on this. Music inspires us, it makes working out enjoyable. I love working out to great music. But not using music is a great way to train your mind. to check in with your self talk, Your self talk creates your mindset. To self motivate. Usually we turn on TV or music as a distraction, so we don’t have to listen to ourselves, don’t have to here that voice that tells us to quit or I’m tired or I’m scared
(here comes the Internet ego) i HAVE been in several self-defense situations. No, music was never playing. It didn’t NEED to be playing. The fact that someone sucker punched me was enough to make me fight back.
Maybe for you, maybe not for someone else, maybe for you in that situation, maybe not in another. There are people who get their butts kicked everyday for 20 years and never fight back
Music to be isn’t some stimuli that is required to react. It’s a force that makes me hit harder, faster, longer.
The trainers making the statement would say to you that you could improve you performance by learning to harness that force without the outside stimuli.
ACTUALLY, i’d go as far as to say that SOME songs give me an adrenaline dump that comes closer to the adrenaline dump i’ve felt in real altercations THAN REACTION DRILLS.
Reality trainers would use it at that time to achieve that state
Maybe some of you have been fortunate enough to never have to defend yourself? Maybe my experience is unique? All i know is that music is ONE of the things that keeps me training (after 8 years in krav?) and i’ve NEVER \”needed\” ANYTHING except the mere PRESENCE of an attacker to get
my heart pumping and ready to ‘go.’Good for You.The funny thing about people is you never know how they will react. The purpose of RBSD/krav is to train them to be proactive in their own defense. Truth is some people see themselves winning, others losing. The \”MINDSET\” must be learned first and the willingness to destroy another humane being is what I’m talking about. Serious trainers who make the statement your questioning see boxercise music as a distraction to that purpose. There are many people who enjoy fighting, they see it as a game and whoop and holler when they win…… till they run into the guy who fights to survive and is willing to do what is necessary in pursuit of that goal. Some trainers are looking to make it fun, others are trying to prepare people for the sheer brutality of sudden violence. Which hopefully they’ll never see.
mike
I liked the TOOL I heard when I walked in Saturday, BTW.
Big fan of music, for the reasons you mentioned. Maybe it’s an artifact from wrestling practice back in the day.
Didn’t impede my learning back then or now, though it affects others differently.
To imply that the presence/absence of music makes one more rugged/ prepped for RBSD, IMO, is mostly subjective.
If you don’t like music played during class (if and when it’s utilized), politely ask your instructor to lower the music or turn it off.
I agree with the points unstpabl made.
In addition, I’d have to say one general reason why I also don’t like the music is that it adds fuel to what critics are saying about KM, that it is \”just like Tae Bo\” or \”just cardio kick boxing\”. Of course KM isn’t – it’s a great and effective self-defense system. But having loud music in every class is reminiscent of cardio classes and so detractors can cite this as part of their criticism of KM.
As for how depending on music in class would affect you in real situations, I believe it may not make too much of a difference if you are just being attacked – in other words, some guy suddenly swings at you and now you don’t have time to think (or get scared), but just to react.
However, what about a situation where you are not attacked right away, but threatened first? A guy pulling a gun or knife on you, or walking around you with a stick or metal pipe, threatening you? Now you have decisions to make. Will you try to talk yourself out of the situation? Will you comply with his demands? Does it become necessary to fight back?
If you decide it becomes necessary to fight back, you may have to make the first move (especially in situations involving guns). You have to make the defense, then find the strength within you to hit the assailant as hard as possible, as many times as necessary and successfully complete your defense.
In that case, if you feel only music can make you go 100%, it might be harder to muster up all of the strength necessary to defeat your opponent, because now, in addition to not having music, you will also be scared. So, it’s a good thing to train to find the strength within you, no matter how you feel, strong or sick, happy or sad, just train to go from 0 to 100% whenever necessary, no matter what the outside circumstances may be.
unstpabl,
Yes those garage and outside drills are great tools. There are also weird, scary noises in the garage sometimes, or there is this echo (voices and footsteps reverberating throughout the garage). It’s eerie and so it’s a good place to train.
Unfortunately, we don’t go too often these days, but it’s always fun if we do and everyone loves it. One girl couldn’t stop talking about it after they had gone to the garage one time, she was so excited and she said she couldn’t wait to go again.
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GiantkillerRe:
[quote=\”Giantkiller\”]I agree with the points unstpabl made.
In addition, I’d have to say one general reason why I also don’t like the music is that it adds fuel to what critics are saying about KM, that it is \”just like Tae Bo\” or \”just cardio kick boxing\”. Of course KM isn’t – it’s a great and effective self-defense system. But having loud music in every class is reminiscent of cardio classes and so detractors can cite this as part of their criticism of KM.
That preception of Krav is actually pretty common. Add the hot women, the music, the Hollywood glam. Hey ain’t that the dance class Madonna takes, while praying? 🙄 I’m not anti music at all. It has a place. Its important to remember Vicious asked for opinions on why the statement was made and preception is very important. People should enjoy training, why do something if it isn’t fun. But my understanding of krav is that its a Reality Based Self Defense System. That intent, the creation of that mindset in homemakers who probably in normal life open the door and ask a spider to leave 😯 😆 takes concentration. You maybe totally sure that you have what it takes to go from happy go lucky, having a great day to kill or be killed, but most people aren’t wired that way. The book i read about krav had Imi discussing the importance of visualisation as important mental training. This is why RBSD trainers frown on the music thing
As for how depending on music in class would affect you in real situations, I believe it may not make too much of a difference if you are just being attacked – in other words, some guy suddenly swings at you and now you don’t have time to think (or get scared), but just to react.
However, what about a situation where you are not attacked right away, but threatened first? A guy pulling a gun or knife on you, or walking around you with a stick or metal pipe, threatening you? Now you have decisions to make. Will you try to talk yourself out of the situation? Will you comply with his demands? Does it become necessary to fight back?That role playing I would think would be some of the best training one could do. Kind of like shoot/ don’t shoot scenarios cops go thru
unstpabl,
Yes those garage and outside drills are great tools. There are also weird, scary noises in the garage sometimes, or there is this echo (voices and footsteps reverberating throughout the garage). It’s eerie and so it’s a good place to train.
This is where training w/o music at times would be awesome. As well as using creepy eeire music and lights screw with your mind and disorintate
Unfortunately, we don’t go too often these days, but it’s always fun if we do and everyone loves it. One girl couldn’t stop talking about it after they had gone to the garage one time, she was so excited and she said she couldn’t wait to go again.
Sorry to hear that,
mike
Another argument against music would be that all of the \”big\” KM guys are actually NOT using it. I don’t believe Imi ever did.
Amir doesn’t. Darren doesn’t. Darren specifically is very good about getting you to understand what SD is all about and creating that mindset that will get you to go all out. If he does punching drills, no matter who is in class, regular people, athletic people, young, old, they all go 100% and no special music is needed to get motivated. Those are the traits of a good SD instructor.
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GiantkillerRe: question on musical beliefs.
[quote=\”unstpabl1\”]
The idea behind the statement is to make your training as realistic as possible. The thing I liked about krav when i first heard of it was they use to do scenario training. Go down into the garage and create engage or no engage scenarios, knife on the floor go for it, drunken goggles. Don’t know if they still do.It can be a bit dangerous, its serious business on a serious subject with serious consequences, win or lose. Most reality based instructors want everyone present and are trying to pull you out of the mentality of boxercise, so they use that statement to keep people on what this stuff is about,saving a life. Yeah training is fun, realieves stress, but the techs being taught are about tearing an eyeball out, maiming someone, killing them. I should go more graphic, but I trust you enough to see what I’m getting at. The reality trainers see music as a distraction to the most important aspect of this training \”MINDSET\”, though they may use it to create chaos,anxiety, adreniline, etc
I agree with the intent of training. Music never made any of that training any easier. I’d say the opposite.
I’m absolutely in agreement with you on this. Music inspires us, it makes working out enjoyable. I love working out to great music. But not using music is a great way to train your mind. to check in with your self talk, Your self talk creates your mindset. To self motivate. Usually we turn on TV or music as a distraction, so we don’t have to listen to ourselves, don’t have to here that voice that tells us to quit or I’m tired or I’m scared
I agree again. I use self talk ALL the time… but after my second hour of class… hearing \”if that’s want you want then you got it… those who want some come and get some… better come strong or don’t come or all… this is not a threat it’s a promise… this is not a threat it’s a promise…\” Is ALL that’s keeping my MIND on KILL.
Maybe for you, maybe not for someone else, maybe for you in that situation, maybe not in another. There are people who get their butts kicked everyday for 20 years and never fight back
COMPLETEL agree… my point was that music DIDN’T make me worse fighter…
The trainers making the statement would say to you that you could improve you performance by learning to harness that force without the outside stimuli.
Reality trainers would use it at that time to achieve that state
THAT’S my primary reason for using music.
Good for You.The funny thing about people is you never know how they will react. The purpose of RBSD/krav is to train them to be proactive in their own defense. Truth is some people see themselves winning, others losing. The \”MINDSET\” must be learned first and the willingness to destroy another humane being is what I’m talking about. Serious trainers who make the statement your questioning see boxercise music as a distraction to that purpose. There are many people who enjoy fighting, they see it as a game and whoop and holler when they win…… till they run into the guy who fights to survive and is willing to do what is necessary in pursuit of that goal. Some trainers are looking to make it fun, others are trying to prepare people for the sheer brutality of sudden violence. Which hopefully they’ll never see.
Music does NOT help me develop mindset… It helps me continue to do what i’ve been doing my whole life…
While i understand you’re counter points i can not stress enough that music is NOT the instructor. Your instructor should be teaching you mindset… Music is a tool that a \”good\” instructor can use or choose not to use.
Either way i only see it hurting your training if the instructor allows it to. If the instructor (mine has) doesn’t address the use of music in the class (if music is played) and how it can be beneficial, and what are the down falls..
THERE is a problem.
respect.
We’re not disagreeing at all. If as i thought you were asking for opinions on why the statement is made. Some like working out to music, some don’t, personally I’m a centrist. I like both. I’m moody, so it depends. Thai gyms always have that psycho stuff on. I’d bet if we went to Kronks or Wild Card we’d hear that rap crap echoing off the walls. It is a great inspiration or torture depending on the circumstance. 😆 It works as an outside stimulant and on a personal level I tend to do more because of it. As you said as well ViCious. Not having it on I tend to hear the negative, like lets eat pizza and go home. Its more of a mental game to stay inspired. I know people who go to the gym, get on a treadmill and say they can’t do it without reading,TV or music. Not having the outside stimulant hurts their performance, because they start to depend on the outside stimulant to motivate them. Not having the stimulant requires mental toughness, that going within, while going without. Which is what your saying as well, as you said it keeps you going after 8 years. Mental toughness is what really seperates the top performers. Working W/O music is a way then to develope toughness. Most of the extreme sports kids wouldn’t think about performing w/o headphones on, it greatly helps them to seperate from the outside distractions and get into thier cocoon. Take it away they have to fight within for focus, it affects focus. A sniper on t5he other hand probably won’t be listening to it as his focus is on the target and getting in tune with everything within him and without by the strength of his will. If he doesn’t someone dies. Its that ability to be able to control our will no matter what the outside stimuli that seperates the Tigers from the rest of the field. Depending on an outside stimuli whether it be a coach, music or roids is a trap, because in the end its just you.
Bottom Line. You said \”Music is a tool that a good instructor can use or choose not to use\” Absolutely. what I’m saying. But I’m adding a Caveat
If you use an outside stimulant to motivate, inspire and push you through training you will start to become more dependent on that stimulus to feed and create that state. In an ambush there is no prep time, like a boxer has before a fight to listen to music to psyche up. Thats why some trainers warn about music. They’ve thought the mrental game thru and will use whatever works at different times. Thanks for the conversationAhh. The Music question. does not the music add to the mood. If you train like you fight. You will fight like you train. If you play the right music and that brings out the agressive training won’t that prepare you for the agressiveness of a fight?
I did a little searching on this not long ago. Someone wanted to know why we listen to heavy metal in class and why we balk at the Kickboxing music when it’s left in the stereo. I found an interesting article on Music and Violence at this website. http://www.apa.org/releases/violentsongs.html A study that showed how music influenced mood.
Under the Fight or Flight reaction that most will experience during a violent encounter the brain disengages the forebrain and goes Primal, Midbrain. The midbrain is where muscle memory, automatic responses come from. It can be trained a few ways.
Pain-touch a hot burner with your bare hand and you have just trained the midbrain.
Repitition- many many many times, some say hundreds some say thousands. This is why Officers many times don’t remeber drawing thier weapons during a shooting, only being aware that they had fired their weapon after it had gone off. They practice to draw and fire and then do it automaticaly.
Stress or increased heart rate- train under physical duress to simulate the stress, this is where many are during the drills in class. If music adds to the mentality then Play it Loud.
Music makes people aggressive if it’s the right music.
Badge54
In suppose music can make some people aggressive, but I guess the question was, can that lead to those people relying on music too heavily to make them aggressive and could that have adverse effects in a fight where the music isn’t playing?
Personally, I think music is fine if all you are doing is training you muscles – in other words aerobic activities, such as cardio boxing, spinning, even weight lifting. But if you come to class to train your brain also – in other words learn a skill, such as a specific self-defense technique – then music can be distracting and may make it harder for you to concentrate on the skill you are learning.
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GiantkillerRe:
quote \”Giantkiller\:In suppose music can make some people aggressive, but I guess the question was, can that lead to those people relying on music too heavily to make them aggressive and could that have adverse effects in a fight where the music isn’t playing? GiantkillerI think the Music can help the midbrain learn faster.
Ever read \”On Killing\” by Dave Grossman? It’s about the Psychology of war and fighting & how we train our military.
Badge54
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