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Re: NO SPARRING?
HHMMM. Don’t really see it as bashing. He heard some stuff, took a class, talked to an instructor, who told him they didn’t spar much and asked a question. He didn’t sugar coat it and got right to the point on what his concerns were. He was even willing to check the system out further by asking to check out another school. At that point its up to you to explain to him or better yet to handle his objections, which is sales 101. More importantly how the system and your school trains and why.
The is it real or is it watered down label is not a new question and one that isn’t going to go away by labeling the questioner anti Krav. It gets alleviated by responding in a helpful manner and explaining the whys and hows of the system and the school. Especially on a forum to promote Krav Maga. Many lurkers are reading these words, potential students, thinking whats up with that? A guy asks a question about aliveness and he’s accused of bashing. Even asking if its real is a common question at this point and I’m sure you understand why. All you gotta do is read the forums if you don’t. Again its a matter of taking the time to explain things. His question is simply an opportunity to show off your system. The princples and the drills that make it what it is
Konstintine, I don’t take krav, but these are some observations I’ve made from watching classes at NTC,KMSO and being here. As I mentioned Thai fighters don’t really do much hard sparing. The get most of their training with a padded up instructor drilling them. Thats because they fight so often. I’m not saying they don’t spar, but its way less than most people think.
KravMDJeff gave an excellent overview of boxing. Imi’s(Krav creator) background was in boxing, so your skills will apply. One thing I noticed in Krav Fight class was they drilled and taught defenses in sparring more than other systems I’ve seen. Inside and outside defenses and hoy to apply them. most of the time in other systems, your thrown into sparring without defensive tools. You can learn 1000s of techniques but it won’t matter if you can’t apply it. At the fight intro I watched at KMSO by Jarret, they were working drills to apply the sparring defenses against controled but non choreographed attacks at speed. Meaning the attacker was mixing up attacks as he pleased. I think its this type of drilling that seperates krav from the herd as most just throw yopu to the wolves and let you sink or swim till ya learn to defend on your own.
I know they spar as GK pointed out, but they develope you into it more. This makes sense to me because establishing fundamentals is key to every endeavor
Aliveness is a new Buzz Word in martial arts and there is a truth to it to a point. The arguement being that you can’t practice aliveness with eyepokes,biting,etc. Which if you’ve ever been poked in the eye you know effectiveness 😆 Krav seperates Self Defense from fighting. The fighting Krav teaches is street type.No Rules is the mentality, though they will spar using only certain tools. Self Defense tecs are drilled to trainyou to react under stress by starting you at points of disadvantage, eyes closed,darkness,multiples, unknown attackers,etc. There will always be the need for some form of cooperation in this training as in fight. Otherwise when you need krav, you’d be too beat up to use it 😆
Anyway, I hope this helps to some degree. One thing that may help is Krav is focused on Reality Self Defense its not a sport and isn’t training for that structured type of event, so the way it trains will be different. however, many kravists have used or are using their skills in KB and mma events. Krav is just deeper.
Because of the difference of focus, you’ll find people from all walks of life training,. Mostly people who never would dream of steppingf into a ring. Not necessarily fighters, though you will find your share. So a school will run the rainbow from wuss to old fart to hardcore fighter. You’ll find your guys if you decide to Train. However, its a huge mistake to only train with the hardcore if you t
(Cont)
Think your that guy. Because you’ll learn a ton by training with the wuss or the soccer mom. They have to learn to make a tech work against bigger, stronger opponents. And there is always someone bigger stronger and meaner out there. People make the mistake of thinking the system is watered down because Krav works to accomadate these people. It truth it makes it more effective because its meant for people from all walks of life
in the end how \”REAL\” the system is will be in direct proportion to your effort and your attitude and your respect for your training partners. You know kinda like life 😆 Hope you find what your looking for
mike
Mike — Excellent post! Maybe I need to re-read Konstantin’s original post. I was the instructor that he talked to. I apologize that I took offense at his post and took it somewhat personal. I think we have a great program. It is a fairly new school to the area and we are just getting students to the orange/green belt phases. We do allow some very light sparring by the beginners. And we’ve had a fight class every Tuesday night since May.
We also have a Muay Thai program that he was informed about. Free of charge to KM students. He is welcome there as well.
Again, an excellent post! The more I read, the more sense it makes. Thank you. I’ll go back to my usual lurking and tuck my feelings back where they belong. 🙂
Re: NO SPARRING?
[quote:20e40bad55=\”dwwilson\”]Konstantin, sorry you didn’t like our classes at the Bedford location. But I’m not about to let a guy spar the first night in my class. We do have sparring at our school, but not for the brand new people in a first time class.
Personally, after one class, I find the KM bashing hard to swallow. I can take someone not liking KM. After being instructor for over 6 years, I know that it’s not for everyone. And I totally respect that.[/quote:20e40bad55]
Well, I’m sorry. At first, I teally had an impression that you don’t spar at all. When I came the first time, the was supposed to be a fighting class after. But the were no people who wanted to spar. That’s why I assumed at first that sparring in KM is not very often.
Re: NO SPARRING?
[quote:6ba46749cb=\”KonstantinDK\”][
Well, I’m sorry. At first, I teally had an impression that you don’t spar at all. When I came the first time, the was supposed to be a fighting class after. But the were no people who wanted to spar. That’s why I assumed at first that sparring in KM is not very often.[/quote:6ba46749cb]Konstintine,
It sounds to me like there was some miscommunication going on. If you go to the book store, look thru \” The Complete Krav Maga\” . It’ll give you a excellent overview of the system. Tech wise. Its the drills and the training that complete it
I don’t know Mr Wilson( dwwilson) but I know this from being on the net. he’s openminded or the response to my post would’ve been different. Who knows maybe the way you asked questions wasn’t clear. whatever. Check out the book, and watch some classes. Call Mr.Wilson ask him if he’d have a few minutes to talk to you. Explain what you’ve heard and where your coming from in a respectful open manner. ask what the learning process is. And listen to his responses. Your both interviewing the other. I’m sure he’ll try to help you
Look the system may not be what your looking for, but the system and the training is solid. Much of what you hear about krav on forums and such is about business not structure. Good luck. Let us know either way
Re:
[quote:80bc82a4f9=\”dwwilson\”]Mike — Excellent post! Maybe I need to re-read Konstantin’s original post. I was the instructor that he talked to. I apologize that I took offense at his post and took it somewhat personal. I think we have a great program. It is a fairly new school to the area and we are just getting students to the orange/green belt phases. We do allow some very light sparring by the beginners. And we’ve had a fight class every Tuesday night since May.
We also have a Muay Thai program that he was informed about. Free of charge to KM students. He is welcome there as well.
Again, an excellent post! The more I read, the more sense it makes. Thank you. I’ll go back to my usual lurking and tuck my feelings back where they belong. :)[/quote:80bc82a4f9]
Sir,
sounds like an excellent program. I like Thai. I always thought most schools made people spar too soon. I always thought because the instructor lacked the skills to teach it or the structure. So it usually becomes improv w/o the foundation. My opinion, I guess 🙄 It sounds like the school is young and a good place for Konstintine to find a niche. Once he sees and understands the demographics of the school. And of course the whys and hows.
I also think it would be a shame for you to go back to lurking and worse not to express your feelings. This forum is exactly where instructors and school owners should be. Its a chance to network with other instructors and perspective students. Every question is an opportunity to advance the system and the school. Guys/gals like you should be here. I’m the one who should be lurking. I keep trying anyway 😳
The thing is when reading a post is to only post when you have a question or to help. Seek first to understand, then be understood. Trust me< I screw this up all the time. Yeah,there will be trolls but they don’t last long. Besides more lurk than post and the good info you post may aide someone else. What you put out will come back, so its a win/win. Hopefully this last paragraph doesn’t sound too pretentious 😆
i think the forum is a place to share the system you guys teach. As such your selling yourself and krav with every post. Cool Huh? But its probably a good idea to always seek the positive. Besides if you do 😆 It always makes the basher look irrational 😉
Hope you hang out a touch
mike
Konstintine, when looking at the KM program, or any other for that matter, what it probably comes down to is what your goals for training are. Just as one might consider how to train at the gym with weights. Do you want to improve self defense skills, practical fighting skills, or do you prefer to train and perform as a ring fighter would? Be it boxing, MMA, or Thai. As a student at the NTC – SO I participate in the fight program and it is a ton of fun and a great place to learn. We are constantly reminded to apply the skills we develop in our KM classes to the fight. Foot work and head movements are emphasized. Vision. Keeping your hands up to make good defenses. Learning to stay calm and control your self under the elevated levels of stress. All the good things that come from sparring in a good environment. But we train for street fighting not as a boxer or pro fighter would.
There is both an intro-fight program which runs for 10-11 weeks and a \”Fight 1\” program where I train and if I am not mistaken the are each offered two times a week. The intro program, obviously, is designed to help students get comfortable with sparring and help them learn control of their power and emotions. And having sparred with people who are not/ can not…I can tell you it is a good thing we have the intro program or I have a feeling some real fights would break out.
It is unfortunate that you were less than pleased with your first exposure to KM but from a student’s perspective I can tell you it is truly a great system to train in and a wonderful organization to be a part of. Take a closer look at the philosophy of the system and the training methods. You may find that you want to participate even if you are not sparring as often as you like early on. It may not match the vision you originally had but as you progress in the system the quality of the training methods really does shine through. The muscle memory comes out. The ability to control your emotion and react under stress gets stronger and stronger. It honestly can help one walk in peace. Please understand that nothing I mentioned is intended to question what ever abilities or skills you may already posses but to assure you that as a fellow student the benefits of KM are real for both body and mind.
Re:
[quote:d8f9124503=\”Jay99\”]
as you progress in the system the quality of the training methods really does shine through. The muscle memory comes out. The ability to control your emotion and react under stress gets stronger and stronger. It honestly can help one walk in peace..[/quote:d8f9124503]Well said
Sparring for rounds.
WTF? Street fights don’t lasf for \”rounds\”. There are no rules. There are no agreements. There is no liability. There is only survival. This is very difficult to reproduce in a training enviornment for many of the reasons that some of you have listed already.
Guys always \”hear how great Krav Maga is for fighting\” . So they load up on Tapout T-shirts and go to the nearest school they can find. They want to fight! They want to \”see what all the hype is about\”. So they are shocked when they find out that Krav Maga is not a tough man competition. It is only ignorance of the system that leads to dissapointment. TKD schools spar a lot. But most of the time it is tournament sparring not street defense.
While sparring has its place it should never ever be confused with street defense. It is not similar at all. Not even close. So while the competitve nature in us may wish to test our skill set against a live opponent from time to time, it does not mean that the game we play called \”sparring\” has relevance in the street.
If you want to fight go to an MMA school. MT is another option. Out of curiosity does MT have a defense for gun from the front, side or rear? Does MT have a training scenario for multiple attackers? Just asking.
Konstintine,
I saw you back in class…Did you sign up? I enjoy KM… I have been able to show true restraint.
Rhonda
I visited the Bedford class last week and thought it was great. As a law enforcement officer, I see using Krav Maga at work on a semi-regular basis. In the beginner stages, I would not want to fight against a more experienced student. It would discourage me to get my butt kicked that soon.
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