Reality of "Live Energy"

[nixxon]

Re: Reality of "Live Energy"

If you guys stopped kicking the crap out of everyone over there then maybe the bar wouldn’t be set so high for ass woopings accross the country.

[cjs-dad]

Re: Reality of "Live Energy"

quote Nixxon:

If you guys stopped kicking the crap out of everyone over there then maybe the bar wouldn’t be set so high for ass woopings accross the country.

I blame Human Weapon and The Fight Quest shows for ramping up the ìRealityî in RBSD

I’m not a bad evil man, I just play one on TV.

[la-revancha]

Re: Reality of "Live Energy"

quote Nixxon:

Maybe I’ll come to appreciate the gentler side of KM…..?

Cupcakes anyone?

Hey, man, you’re the one who abandoned Krav for “el arte suave” 😛

Nixxon, what happened to Steve MacDonald? He was a good instructor from there. He tore me up on the ground, back in the day.

[nixxon]

Re: Reality of "Live Energy"

quote La Revancha:

Hey, man, you’re the one who abandoned Krav for “el arte suave” 😛

Nixxon, what happened to Steve MacDonald? He was a good instructor from there. He tore me up on the ground, back in the day.

I actually train at The Ultima East. Steve as I understand trains at the west. I’ve haven’t met him as that side of town is far away… I keep meaning to go there. My BJJ instructor actually comes from the west side to instruct.. since you compete maybe you know him. Dusty Alexander?

[ryan]

Re: Reality of "Live Energy"

ìMy instructor explained how getting in close neutralizes a lot of capabilities people have as strikers, regardless of their power.î

-Headbutts? Eye gouges? Bites?

ìExample: A lot of people feel that a knee is the end all solution to someone shooting in on them for a take down.î

-Who are these people?

ìMy instructor asked me to knee him as hard as I could while he tried to take me down. Using no sparring gear except for mouth pieces I let him have it as he shot in. I’m usually regarded as one of the more powerful strikers in the class and I had absolutely NO power.î

-Iím not sure what this is supposed to prove. He told you how to react to his attack. I would hope he could ìdefeatî it.

ìSame thing went for the clinch; he had me strike him as hard as I could while he wrapped his arms around my midsection as I pummeled his kidneys, ribs and back, elbows and all.î

-Did you bite him? Grab and twist his groin? Slap his ears? Put your thumbs in his eyes? Chin rip him?

ìDo you REALLY think the techniques taught by Krav are realistic enough?î

-Is this a real question?

ìMy class does NO sparring and uses a VERY controlled environment for chokes and multiple attackers.î

-Okay, so what about in your BJJ class? Gi only? Always on mats? Multiple attackers? Striking? Weapons?

ìIt just seems to me that we train for self defense like its some orchestrated, controlled danceî

-If this is what your KM class is really like, you should leave.

ìwhen in reality a fight is so dynamic and chaotic that even the best fighter in the world can be finished with one punch.î

-Howís that? All he would need to do is clinchÖ 😉

[nixxon]

Re: Reality of "Live Energy"

quote Ryan:

ìMy instructor explained how getting in close neutralizes a lot of capabilities people have as strikers, regardless of their power.î

-Headbutts? Eye gouges? Bites?

ìExample: A lot of people feel that a knee is the end all solution to someone shooting in on them for a take down.î

-Who are these people?

ìMy instructor asked me to knee him as hard as I could while he tried to take me down. Using no sparring gear except for mouth pieces I let him have it as he shot in. I’m usually regarded as one of the more powerful strikers in the class and I had absolutely NO power.î

-Iím not sure what this is supposed to prove. He told you how to react to his attack. I would hope he could ìdefeatî it.

ìSame thing went for the clinch; he had me strike him as hard as I could while he wrapped his arms around my midsection as I pummeled his kidneys, ribs and back, elbows and all.î

-Did you bite him? Grab and twist his groin? Slap his ears? Put your thumbs in his eyes? Chin rip him?

ìDo you REALLY think the techniques taught by Krav are realistic enough?î

-Is this a real question?

ìMy class does NO sparring and uses a VERY controlled environment for chokes and multiple attackers.î

-Okay, so what about in your BJJ class? Gi only? Always on mats? Multiple attackers? Striking? Weapons?

ìIt just seems to me that we train for self defense like its some orchestrated, controlled danceî

-If this is what your KM class is really like, you should leave.

ìwhen in reality a fight is so dynamic and chaotic that even the best fighter in the world can be finished with one punch.î

-Howís that? All he would need to do is clinchÖ 😉

I agree with you competely, which is kind of why I’m asking these questions. When its all boiled down I think that its the instructor and the people you train with that make effective realistic training. I guess I’m not getting that and its up to me to speak with the instructor regarding it. They are great instructors, maybe there is a reason for it. IE: Too many new students.

I’m never asking a question again. Ryan is going to give me the internet hammer fist again!

[ryan]

Re: Reality of "Live Energy"

Hey, man, sorry, I didn’t mean for it to seem that way. Send me an e-mail if you can. I have a trip planned for your area, and I would like some insight into a few of the facilities.

All the best,
Ryan

[kmcat]

Re: Reality of "Live Energy"

At the school I go to when ever we are grappling or ground fighting it is stressed to be aware of multiple attackers, and the possibility of wepons.

Example, using your superior arm bar or choke hold you have the better of someone you are grappling with and then their comrade in crime runs up and starts kicking you in the head. While stunned from the head blows your loosen your choke hold and the guy you are tangled up on the ground with fishes out his folding 4 inch knife and starts a new carving project on your arm and ribs.

As for reality, the other night the instructor propped up some crash pad mats to stand in for walls and had us walking around half of us jumping out from behind the “walls” attacking using the various strikes and choke we had worked on that evening. This introduced an interesting element of surprise in our drills.

The of course there were the training exercises on the buses in Denver back in February! :OhMy:

[nixxon]

Re: Reality of "Live Energy"

quote Ryan:

Hey, man, sorry, I didn’t mean for it to seem that way. Send me an e-mail if you can. I have a trip planned for your area, and I would like some insight into a few of the facilities.

All the best,
Ryan

Haha no problem man. I was kidding, you make very valid points and your insight is wonderful. I realised your points I guess the path I was trying to go down was more along the lines of aggression from students.

[unstpabl1]

Re: Reality of "Live Energy"

quote Benelli:

Did you happen to catch unstopable1ís comment on the L3 class he watched? I know his review was more of the fight class he took but he also mentioned the intensity of the multiple attacker scenario drills. Maybe he can expand on his thoughts of their realism.

La Revancha would be the one to ask as it was his class. I was also really enjoying hanging out for many reasons and could have been high from lack of oxygen. My POV wouldn’t be as good.

Ryan brings up the key point in any technique as far as I’m concerned…If I know what your going to throw at me and when your going to throw it, even I with limited expirience can render the technique ineffective. just step off line;):Whether we buy the line that its an “alive” tech or not, we’ve tipped the hand. It ends up being a flawed premise.

BJJ is a great system thats mostly taught as a combat sport. There is much to learn from combat sports. Krav has no rules, but to survive. It takes into account many more variables and doesn’t concentrate on any one range to fight from. Their really apples and hand grenades

I will remind you though when you talk about only hitting pads that Thai fighters don’t normally spar much. Their coach pads up and they pound pads as they fight too much to risk injury. Its effective for them.

[rifle]

Re: Reality of "Live Energy"

Understanding that I’m a new guy here, but I think I have something to add to the conversation.

I have a lot of background being a student. From many other martial art forms to military, and from a firefighter to a college student. I’ve spent a LONG time as a student…..

With that in mind, I believe it is the responsibility of the instructor to teach, and it is the responsibility of the student to LEARN.

The best instructor/teacher in the whole wide world of ours can only give you the tools you need to learn. He/she cannot teach you if you aren’t willing to learn. It is up to the student to use the tools and complete the learning process.

If you feel you aren’t getting the training you want, and are paying for, then you need to bring it up to the head instructor, in private, with respect and tact. But you still have to make an effort to learn.

After I am shown a technique, I work on it, I take it home and shadow-box with it, and I try to perfect it. Then I try it the next time in class. It usually isn’t as pretty as I made it at home, but it’s much better than if I don’t practice it at all. My point? Well, after you are shown a technique, it doesn’t mean you’ve mastered it. I often find myself “adjusting” my technique to work better for me as I learn more. Also, If I tried a technique on someone, I try and evaluate why it didn’t work, how or if I screwed it up (the most likely case), or if I should have done something different.

I’m not directing my comments to any one person, these are just some thoughts.

I just don’t like it when someone is given tools, never uses them, then complains that they aren’t learning anything. :dunno:

Just my $.02.

Rifle

[nixxon]

Re: Reality of "Live Energy"

quote Rifle:

Understanding that I’m a new guy here, but I think I have something to add to the conversation.

I have a lot of background being a student. From many other martial art forms to military, and from a firefighter to a college student. I’ve spent a LONG time as a student…..

With that in mind, I believe it is the responsibility of the instructor to teach, and it is the responsibility of the student to LEARN.

The best instructor/teacher in the whole wide world of ours can only give you the tools you need to learn. He/she cannot teach you if you aren’t willing to learn. It is up to the student to use the tools and complete the learning process.

If you feel you aren’t getting the training you want, and are paying for, then you need to bring it up to the head instructor, in private, with respect and tact. But you still have to make an effort to learn.

After I am shown a technique, I work on it, I take it home and shadow-box with it, and I try to perfect it. Then I try it the next time in class. It usually isn’t as pretty as I made it at home, but it’s much better than if I don’t practice it at all. My point? Well, after you are shown a technique, it doesn’t mean you’ve mastered it. I often find myself “adjusting” my technique to work better for me as I learn more. Also, If I tried a technique on someone, I try and evaluate why it didn’t work, how or if I screwed it up (the most likely case), or if I should have done something different.

I’m not directing my comments to any one person, these are just some thoughts.

I just don’t like it when someone is given tools, never uses them, then complains that they aren’t learning anything. :dunno:

Just my $.02.

Rifle

I’m in agreement with you. There is never such thing as someone who knows it all and you can never stop learning. I’m always asking alot of questions and applying the techniques to situations in my head during classes.

That being said. All in all I wish there was more of an oppertunity to grow in KM where I’m at. My instructors are pretty good about showing us advanced techniques and stuff, but we just don’t have enough instructors to conduct level 1 and 2 classes at the same time. Fortunetly I found out the other day they are sending somone to level one phase and I may actually also start training to do the same. So hopefully this kinds of expands KM and broadens the cirriculum.

Oh, and unstpabl1 I’m not saying BBJ is better than Krav or anything like that, I was just saying that I came upon this thought during a BJJ class. In the street is totally different and I understand that, nobody is going to bear hug me with the intent of taking me down without getting a thumb or two in the eye. BJJ is great for what I want it for, expanding my ground game (which if I get into a situation I hope I never need to use it) and for competitions.

Great comments guys. Thanks for all the inputs. I would LOVE to come train with you guys and see how different schools conduct classes. Maybe through my TDY’s I may end up in a few places nearby and can come check it out.

[Author]

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