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Just a terrible, terrible tragedy. He was fully armed with an AR-15, a 12-gauge shotgun and a Glock .40 (according to news articles) and was in full riot gear with gas mask, riot helmet, bulletproof vest and possibly even a groin protector. Krav Maga, or whatever art you want, you can’t disarm someone if you can’t get within range of him and anyone within range of him was most likely the one to be shot. He also threw out tear gas before opening fire…
Such a damn tragedy. 😡
Re: Shooting in Colorado Movie Theater
Truly a horror!!
That’s where the legal carrying of a firearm fills the gap! Just Saying!
Re: Shooting in Colorado Movie Theater
With all due respect Jacgue…what your suggesting is that people shoot back in a room with tear gas in hopes to not hit people who are in a panic running to escape? People are zoned out in a movie and people are already dressed up like their favorite characters.
Re: Shooting in Colorado Movie Theater
It’s definitely not an easy or simple situation – a LOT of variables could come into play. To back what jacgue is saying – IF a good guy (or two or three) in the audience also has a firearm, THEN at least you have that option. There have been quite a few active shooter type incidents where an off-duty officer or an armed citizen was able to stop the threat and save lives because they were warriors, were in the right place at the right time, and were also armed.
Re: Shooting in Colorado Movie Theater
Don, maybe so for all we know. I’m not sure it’s possible or impossible but there was tear gas making it a unique situation.
Of course this is all speculation.
*Not trying to turn this into a debate. It is a very sad situation.*
Re: Shooting in Colorado Movie Theater
I don’t want to turn this into a ProGun vs AntiGun thread but can someone tell me why Average Joe should be allowed to buy bulletproof assault gear?
Re: Shooting in Colorado Movie Theater
That made me wonder as well but are dealing with Average Joe? He went to the extent of rigging his apartment with elaborate explosives. That’s not info you find at your local library.
Re: Shooting in Colorado Movie Theater
quote bear34:I don’t want to turn this into a ProGun vs AntiGun thread but can someone tell me why Average Joe should be allowed to buy bulletproof assault gear?Unless you’re wearing heavy armor designed to defeat .50 caliber or larger AP rounds, no such thing as bullet proof, only bullet resistant. The only conceivable reason I can conjure up to make that illegal is that civilians may use them in a shooting rampage. In this instance, it proved to be a non-factor as the suspect surrendered. Either way, if someone REALLY wanted to go on a “rampage” with something bullet resistant, innovation would guide them to heavy metals. Although the suit would be heavy and difficult to maneuver in, it’s still a threat. At this point, better to let someone who’s defending their home or in fear of their life (IE business executives and anybody else with a threat who may not be able to carry a firearm without significant repercussions) to purchase and wear protection than to let them go slick. Even bullet-resistant can stop the bullets sometimes.
Re: Shooting in Colorado Movie Theater
My $.02, in the emotions of the moment, it’s easy to point a finger at the easy access to weapons but where does it end? How about cars? It’s easy for a whack job to crash his car through a crowd of people. Or gasoline? Throw a 5-gallon Molotov cocktail into a crowd and it’s a horror. Crazy people will find a way. Just sayin’…
Re: Shooting in Colorado Movie Theater
quote TheDarkKnight:Don, maybe so for all we know. I’m not sure it’s possible or impossible but there was tear gas making it a unique situation.Of course this is all speculation.
*Not trying to turn this into a debate. It is a very sad situation.*
Tear gas and OC are only effective based on the potency. For training we were sprayed directly in the face with 500,000 Scoville Heat Unit pepper spray. I was able to run around the corner, fight with the “bad guy” and put him in cuffs well before the spray affected me. That’s plenty of time to put lead into a douchebag who is standing on stage, in front of the movie screen as witness reports have said he was. Makes it pretty obvious who the bad guy is.
Re: Shooting in Colorado Movie Theater
Dark Knight: As you said, not to make this a debate.
I didn’t mean to sound so simplistic but my initial comment was simply offering an option to your concern:
“Krav Maga, or whatever art you want, you can’t disarm someone if you can’t get within range of him”.
As Don said, having a firearm gives you the OPTION (not the obligation) of responding to the threat. I believe that part of being a responsible gun owner, especially if you carry one, is knowing your limitations under the circumstances. As well as knowing when to get involved and when it’s best to be a good witness (which is most of the time).
Though it may not be the majority, there are those that do train and have the ability to react under the most stressful of circumstances. If there were someone present, maybe there wouldn’t have been 70+ victims of such a senseless attack!
As unique of a situation as it was, it is definitely possible to respond in such chaos. Those in law enforcement and the military do it all the time. So do thugs on the street. There’s plenty of evidence of people fighting through taser hits, pepper spray, beatings and even multiple gunshot wounds (as I’m sure many of victims at the theater did to get out of the building). Much of it depends on your mindset, as Don mentioned. One must maintain the warrior mindset, a Krav principle, and not that of a victim. Again, not so simple when you’re in the middle of craziness but more than possible.
Re: Shooting in Colorado Movie Theater
Not that anyone could or would have had much chance irrespective of what they did. However, drives home the point of being environmentally and situationally aware always. MAYBE, just Maybe, there may have been a tell or some sign some could have picked up on prior to the tragedy.
Re: Shooting in Colorado Movie Theater
It makes me wonder…will more people turn to martial arts as a result of the incident?
Re: Shooting in Colorado Movie Theater
+1 on what resqr and jagcue said.
quote bear34:I don’t want to turn this into a ProGun vs AntiGun thread but can someone tell me why Average Joe should be allowed to buy bulletproof assault gear?I don’t really have a problem with an average joe owning guns and body armor. That being said, one big problem can be trying to figure out who the whackos and scumbags are within the group of average looking joes. I’m for arming citizens but would prefer that they go through a background/character/common sense check and proper training.
The bigger problem is that we actually have a substantial number of people (IDIOTS) who think it’s OK for CONVICTED FELONS (even of armed/violent crimes) to possess body armor. Unfortunately, some of these same people are in positions where they can give (much) lesser sentences/punishments for crimes committed, they can permit (way) early release for inmates and prisoners, and just before leaving office they can give full pardons to dozens (and more) of convicted felons – all with absolutely no accountability whatsoever…
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