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This topic has come up a lot lately in my discussions with students and I wanted to see what you all think. The whole idea that size does not matter is something that really needs to be clarified for students. I should say that I am not a small guy. So I am speaking from a big man’s point of view. This whole subject boils down to context. In other words. What situation are we talking about?
In a true self defense situation size does not mattere initially. In fact a properly trained smaller person can often do enough to survive the encounter with a bigger attacker. Big people will often attack with brute force and strength . They are not concerned with the smaller \”victim’s\” response. So with proper training an individual can negate and properly deal with an attack at least to the point where escape is an option. So on this point I would agree with the \”size does not matter\”.
In a fight size matters. Sorry to tell all you small types this but it’s true. I don’t care what you know or how much training you have. Ok, maybe Mr. Whitman, Mr. Levine, Bas, Amir and a few others would have no problem giving up 50lbs to an opponent but for most of you this would be a problem. A bad big man will beat a good little man almost everytime! This is just a matter of science people. This is one of things that I don’t really like about fight class. I have sparred with students, instructors, black belts etc… The idea of a 180lb person standing in front of me and \”walking me down\” is quite frankly absurd! They are giving up 80lbs! Are you kidding me? The same should be said for a 120lb person standing in front of a 180lb person going toe to toe. This is just stupid and it should never be encouraged.
In a fight size matters. Allowing or encouraging students to go toe to toe with people that have them outweighed by 20lbs or more is in my opinion very dangerous. So fight class should really be about movement and assesing the students ability to apply the \”techniques\” learned in other classes. So many times I see students trying to \”measure\” their skills against a much bigger foe. They are going to get their asses handed to them in the street folks. Now I know that this may be a shock to some egos out there but lets be honest here. Do you ever see little people attacking bigger people? Not usually! Zebras do not attack Lions, self preservation is a more powerful instinct. KM is all about instinct. We are not an MMA and I say that with the greatest respect for MMA practitioners.
We have to resist the urge to take our Israeli \”attitude\” and convey to students that it is in their best interest to go to to toe with bigger people. Fight class is a controlled enviornment the street is not the same venue. Big people have an advantage. They don’t have to be that good. They have to be right once! Smaller types have to have a lot of things go right for them to conquer a bigger foe in a fight. Self defense on the other hand is about survival and escape. We must not forget this!
I eagerly await all responses!
\”A bad big man will beat a good little man almost everytime!\”
Beat them in what?
\”The idea of a 180lb person standing in front of me and \”walking me down\” is quite frankly absurd!\”
Hmmm, again, what are we talking about here?
Does size matter? Yes, it does. Is it the end-all? No, it’s not. I’d like more clarification on these quotes before I comment further.
Um, zebras don’t attack lions because they are herbivores. Also, lions tend to hunt in groups, so size has little to do with this (especially considering Zebras can go 800+ pounds, and lionesses are about 300 pounds.)
\”They are going to get their asses handed to them in the street folks.\”
Because they spar with bigger people? What are you talking about here?
Let me be clear
Sparring with bigger people is fine. The nature of the sparring should not be that of a \”fight\”. There is a difference between fight and self defense. The nature of the sparring session should be clear to all of those who are involved. If a person is sparring with someone close to their own size I think it reasonable for both parties to be willing to \”exchange\” a little more. I believe that you play like you practice. Teaching students that it is ok to engage a bigger person for any other purpose than self defense or extreme circumstances is wrong!
The Zebra thing is an analogy. Point being students run the risk of developing over confidence. It is really a simple concept.
i would agree that size does make a difference in a fight class.
however, in our classes, i’m usually the only female, and if i want to fight (which i do!), i don’t have a choice by to go toe-to-toe with guys that outweigh me by as much as 100 lbs. is it dangerous? absolutely. have i gotten hurt? indeed. but it’s taught me to move faster. it’s made me have better footwork. and made me more efficient because i can’t rely on brute strength alone. and it’s certainly taught me to take a punch…or two…or three….
our instructor monitors us very carefully. the big guys obviously can’t hit me AS HARD as they would hit someone in their own weight class, but they don’t ease up that much either. and i appreciate that.
oh yeah, and i’ve taught them to never underestimate the little guy…
I realize it was an analogy–it was just wrong. 🙂
I’d still like some clarification on the other comments I noted.
Students run the risk of overconfidence simply by training. It’s up to the instructor to insure that their methodology invokes realism into the training, keeping the goals of the training in mind. To me, a sparring class, as it relates to self defense/self protection issues, is about taking some contact, feeling the psychological pressure and stress (adrenaline) of the \”fight\”, and finding out what works under pressure and what may not. It’s doing your students a disservice if you only allow the 100 pound women to spar with other 100 pound women. The 200 pound guys don’t have to spar all out for the 100 pound woman to benefit, and as long as you articulate the context, the goals, the guidelines, and what’s \”real\” and what isn’t, I don’t see the issue.
I’m 5’9\”, 185 lbs. I have sparred with 105 lb woman and 255 lb guys. I learn something everytime. I want to fight as many different people as possible.
While I can see having a reasonable match during a sparring session or match, I would much prefer someone my own size to train with – mainly to avoid hyperextensions or having to hold focus mitts above my head.
That being said, I am likely not going to get to choose who I have to defend myself against. I would rather know that I can hold my ground against someone 50 lbs larger than I, than to have never trained against someone that size. There are things that I have picked up that only work on larger/taller opponents.
I have also learned through training – and real world scenarios – that there is little to no corrolation between the size of an opponent and their ability to fight.
One thing we’ve tried for students that are not \”challenged\” enough is to ask them to restrict their tools or put them at a disadvanate somehow. That way they can work on attributes and still be challenged.
HMM….
Ok,
Let me clarify some of my statements. First of all the term \”Walking down\” refereneces the idea that a smaller person would \”stalk\” a bigger person while sparring. Meaning that they stand directly in front and walk towards the bigger person. It is fools gold people. As I stated in my original post the instructors should always make sure that all of the participants understand the purpose of the drill.
Yes there is benefit to playing around with different sparring partners. There is no doubt. However as a bigger person the benefit is minimal if the size difference is that great. Powerful people should spend the bulk of their time improving their power. Speed guys should use their speed. There is no substitute for size and power.
Sure sparring for variance in speed, length, technique, skill, cardio and movement is always a good idea. The point I am making is that instructors should really emphasize that staying engaged in a prolonged combative situation with someone considerably larger is not a wise decision.
What do you mean when you say that you will be able to \”handle yourself against someone who is 50lbs bigger\”? By handle yourself if you mean that you would negate the threat, attack the source and then leave then I say great. If you mean that you are going to stand and brawl with an individual like this I would say that this is not KM.
\”…know that I can hold my ground against someone 50 lbs larger than I, than to have never trained against someone that size.\”
Clarification:
1) All skills and variables being equal, physics favors a 50 lb opponent;
2) Would I go toe-to-toe with a Super Heavyweight-class fighter? No. At least not with the same rules as any type of competitive fighting.
3) Would I back down from a confrontation with someone 50 lbs larger than I? No, unless it were to avoid a fight over something stupid.
The point is, MOST people can’t fight – regardless of size. I’ve trained/sparred with plenty of bigger guys, and it is rare that they know how to use their size, reach, weight, momentum/inertia to their advantage.
If I had to go against someone with my exact skills set, but 25% larger than I am, I only hope that I am 25% SMARTER.
\”First of all the term \”Walking down\” refereneces the idea that a smaller person would \”stalk\” a bigger person while sparring. Meaning that they stand directly in front and walk towards the bigger person. It is fools gold people.\”
Maybe, but I still contend the context is important. Watch Vitor Belfort vs. Scott Ferrozzo, Tank Abbott, or Joe Charles. Watch Royce vs. just about anyone in the early UFCs. See Sak vs. Silveira or Randleman. Watch Nog vs. Sapp. Checkout Keith Hackney. Sometimes, it is tactically sound to overwhelm the opponent with aggressive, linear attacks, especially if you’ve put them on the defensive, and/or if you’re more technically sound.
\”If you mean that you are going to stand and brawl with an individual like this I would say that this is not KM.\”
Again, what’s the context? What is the nature of the \”sparring\”? I could just as easily say that sparring, in and of itself, is not KM. What are the goals of the training?
Ryan,
That was my subtle, unstated point: \”All things are NEVER equal.\” That’s why we prepare for the worst cast scenario.
Good God!
This has nothing to do with trained or untrained. And please stop with the references to the UFC. All of the things you pointed out are true but I am not talking about ring fighting!
I am merely saying the nature of sparring should be that the students understand how it feels to have someone try and hit back. They should also understand timing and distance and most importantly when to disengage!
This is the difference between a fight and self defense. If you are Billy Badass and you want to stay in a fight with someone who is much larger than you are I say knock yourself out. I am quite large by any standard and extremely athletic.. i still do not think that it would be in my best interest to go toe to toe with a 320lb man. This is not a macho thing it is smart. If you are teaching your female students to \”stand their ground\” against much larger attackers I would say they are going to be in need of medical attention! They should hit and move. Not stand and brawl.
Re:
quote \”Psyops\:Good God!This has nothing to do with trained or untrained. And please stop with the references to the UFC. All of the things you pointed out are true but I am not talking about ring fighting!
I am merely saying the nature of sparring should be that the students understand how it feels to have someone try and hit back. They should also understand timing and distance and most importantly when to disengage!
I think the UFC references are inevitable because the discussion transitioned to sparring in fight class. When most people \”spar\”, there are some assumptions made: both are aware of the imminent contact, there’s gear, safety considerations, no weapons, they are warmed up, don’t usually grab clothes, etc. We all suspend many realistic considerations in order to make the classes safer.
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