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No one’s gone through the book enough to notice yet, so I wanted to point out one omission. It’s a stupid one, really, and totally my fault.
There is no sprawl in the book. We teach sprawling — shoot, we even do it in our conditioning classes — but I just forgot to put it in there. Anyway, if anyone wants to discuss aspects of sprawling, this is the place to do it!!!
Funny you’d post this today, John.
I spent four hours yesterday and another hour today giving private lessons to a guy who drove two hours to train with us. He had previously trained with Sam (thanks for the referral, Sam.) Anyway, we spent the bulk of the training on avoiding takedowns. He’s a big guy, so we focused mostly on arm stops and \”partial sprawls\”. I gave him one of the books, and only then did I notice sprawls weren’t included, but I was surprised to see that takedowns were (which I thought was good.)
Despite this omission, the book is very good. You guys should be proud.
I noticed and thought it was odd, but just figured there wasn’t enough room. Anyway, another good reason to start thinking about a sequel. 😀 Or maybe one could include it in another printing?
But while we are at it, here’s a sprawl question: What are the advantages/disadvantages of the various possible hand placements during a sprawl? Is putting both arms on the attacker’s back more advantageous than placing them in front of his shoulders (and perhaps then underhooking his arms)? How about placiing one of your arms against his shoulder and using the other to push the attacker’s head to the side (against the chin, almost like a neck crank)?
Is one way better than the other, or does it mostly depend on what you intend do do after the sprawl? Hooking at least one of the attacker’s arms could facilitate spinning to his back for example. Also, what about stepping to the side as a way of avoiding the takedown? Viable option?
Oh, and in case I’m the one going for the takedown and the defender sprawls on me, what, ideally, should be my first counter move? Should I try to turn quickly, so he can’t get to my back? What if I am not all the way on the ground, but still on my legs or knees perhaps? How can I turn the situation to my advantage from that position?
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GiantkillerI had seen this and thought I was just going blind and had missed it. I have been letting my instrucotrs look at it this past week, so I have looked through it again.
As stated previously. I would also like to know how do I work their sprawl to my advantage?
If I have disarmed and now we are into the fight. I go to take him down, he sprawls. Is there only 1 response or is there a few responses?
Of course other than uh-oh.
\”If I have disarmed and now we are into the fight. I go to take him down, he sprawls. Is there only 1 response or is there a few responses? \”
Question: If you had disarmed an attacker, would you not have control of the weapon, in most cases? If so, if you have the weapon and in control, you should not have to fight – in most senarios I think. I might be wrong.
Also, if I were forced to fight, I don’t think I would try to take the guy down. If he tried to take me down and I execured the sprawl defense, I think I would try to grab his shoulders or back and, using his own body force, throw him to the ground and then kick or stomp him. I would try to avoid going to the ground.
I think Brad makes a good point. Wouldn’t make much sense to grab the guy’s gun and then go for a takedown instead of making space. Or trying to wrestle him once you have taken his knife. Still, even if it’s more in a sportfighting context, ways to counter a sprawl may be interesting to discuss.
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GiantkillerWhat¥s a sprawl? 😆
I was just talking about the absence of the sprawl with Sr. Cox after Junior’s fight.
Thanks for clarifying.
So, are there any thoughts on the different ways to do the sprawl, follow-up attacks and defenses against the sprawl?
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GiantkillerThere are preemptive defenses to keep your attacker away from you of course, like a defensive kick, or as he comes in arms spread you can attack his clavicle with your elbow or forearm, grabbing his other arm and using knees to keep him away.
Assuming for conversation sake that he managed to skirt the above and is close enough to grab you by the waist for example, we then can do several things.
The first thing I learned was to kick your waist and hips back , preventing him from grabbing your legs, then sprawling backwards and dropping your weight on his head, moving in for a choke.
More advanced options include:
if\\when you are caught by the waist, an elbow to the back of the head or spine, continuing pressure with you relbow, driving the oppponent to the ground. Very painful and effective.
If you are grabbed by the waist, but manage to keep him from dropping you, the guillotine is available as well.
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You could also crossface him as he is coming in, possibly turning him over (as in one of the bear hug defenses, just using your arm instead of your hands).
I wonder if there is any specific hand position that would be preferred during the sprawl? Both hands on his back, both hands in front (against his shoulders), or one on top, one in front? Having one or both hands in front might make it easier to spin and your arm is right there for the choke, guillotine from the front, or you could underhook him and knee him. Or if you spin to his back, RNC. With both arms on his back, you might be able to put more weight on him.
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GiantkillerRe:
quote \”Giant Killer\:I wonder if there is any specific hand position that would be preferred during the sprawl? Both hands on his back, both hands in front (against his shoulders), or one on top, one in front?
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GiantkillerGK- Quick clarification please, when you say \”hands on front\”, do you mean on the attacker’s trapezius muscles, or lower? If so, I’d recommend against that placement for a couple of reasons. First, if the attacker is quick enough (BJJ or grappler types) the defender’s hands could get trapped inside. There are plenty of situations where the best sprawl is just part of the defensive technique.
Second, if the attacker is significantly larger than the defender (ht/wt/both), having the hands inside/front could lead to defender injuring themselves, most likely at the fingers or wrist. Granted, this is slightly less of a concern than having one’s hands trapped inside.
Of course, hands front gives options separate from those available if hands are on the back.
For my $.02, I like hands on the attacker’s back so I can drop my weight and maneuver the head (down or cross-face, as you suggest) and get to the attacker’s back.
Ooops, I guess I really meant \”arms\”, not \”hands\”. Sorry.
What I’ve seen in class was the option of putting one or both arms in front of his shoulders (so your arms, high above the elbow, are against his shoulder and are hanging down from there as you sprawl), so you could then either spin to his back if he comes down all the way, or maybe underhook him and give knees and continue wrestling. I don’t think you would grab his arm with your hands in that situation, just place your own arm there, blocking him from coming in deeper and doing the sprawl at the same time, then continue from there.
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GiantkillerHi. The hand position for our standard sprawl is elbows down, forearms against his shoulder(s). Of course, you start by kicking your feet and hips back, hips down, etc.
The reason we teach this is that it is instinctive — when startled, we draw our hands and arms into our bodies (fetal position) rather than putting our hands down. This position also keeps our hands up in case he fakes the shoot and punches instead.
Having said that, I will admit that there are grappling-related advantages to to the one up-one down position, or two-hands-down positions. These positions tend to make it more difficult for a wrestler to circle and get your back, they allow you to cross face more quickly, and they allow for more control (underhooks) in grappling situations. Someone looking for more advanced fight knowledge should definitely have this other positions in their repertoire, and we show them as variations.
But if I only had ten minutes (or one page…which I forgot to include!) to show someone a sprawl, I would choose the elbows down/forearms against the shoulder(s) version.
Is there any good defense against a sprawl? If I shoot in and someone is sprawling on me, is there anything I can do? Could I try to spin to his back if his arms are up? Could I \”twist around\” somehow, to at least get him in the guard?
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Giantkiller
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