The \"invite your gunman to dinner\" defense

[giant-killer]

Here’s a bizarre self-defense story I just came across. First the guy enters a home and puts a gun to a childs head, then they invite him to have dinner with them and he ends up asking for a hug, gets it and walks away. Love works!! 8)

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/would-be-robber-stays-for-wine-hugs/20070713145809990001

[ladya]

Wow…

I don’t know if I’d be able to speak if someone held a gun to my child’s head, let alone invite him to supper so calmly. I’m afraid I’d go all momma bear on them. LOL

Amazing. I’m going to be shaking my head over this one.

A

[mara-jade]

Whoa..guy seems a few fries short of a happy meal..

Yeah LadyA – screw the wine thing 😀

[vwr32]

The Bas Rutten tapes will be collecting dust I suspect. Don’t be surprised if you’re training to this video at the next Krav class:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUdWApwbudQ

I feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

[jburtonpdx]

Not sure I want a \”Krav\” hug. Consider the other thread about Krav clothing, think about how sweaty the heavy sweaters get in class (guilty). Now do you want a Krav hug? 😆

[maskedkat]

Ha!
My husband enjoys my post-Krav hugs about as much as I enjoy his post-lawn-mowing ones.

That robber story is so bizarre. Very Monty Python, in a way.

[giant-killer]

Krav hugs bring back memories of Amir’s old fight class. We’d all get a sweaty hug from him in the end. 🙂

The robber story is bizarre, but whatever works I guess. I suppose a KM practitioner might have offered the wine and as soon as the attacker put down the gun, jumped him. But maybe this worked even better.

Alright, off to Vegas!! 😀

_________________
Giantkiller

[kravjeff]

Gun at my kid’s head? He’d be leaving in a box – Without dinner …

[jburtonpdx]

quote :

He’d be leaving in a box

You sure they would find enough of him to need a box? I’m thinking a plastic snack bag.

In the officers report. \”All that was located of the suspect was a portion of the left index finger.\”

[jaeroo]

That Family Was Just Plain Lucky

Stuff like that is very rare. Lucky that gunman/robber was a little good-natured. Don’t expect every gunman/robber to be that way.

[dps]

I disagree. These extreme \”turn the other cheek\” stories are actually not all that rare and actually DO make a certain amount of sense from a self defense perspective. It was a action that was so unexpected that it took the subject away from his game plan. This is something we try to capitalize on with pre-disarm questions. (I, of course, count on my disarming good looks and winsome smiles)
Could this responsably be taught and counted on as a technique? No.
But they assessed the situation, gambled, and won. Self defense was accomplshed.
I think a flip side of this needs to also be brought up. This family used a strong human angle to diffuse a threat of violence. Actions taken by aggressors to dehumanize (ie. bag over head, face on the ground, gun in mouth, \”put this on\”, \”take this off\”, etc) indicate an potential escalation.

[vwr32]

Re:

quote \”dps\:

These extreme \”turn the other cheek\” stories are actually not all that rare and actually DO make a certain amount of sense from a self defense perspective.

I think it makes a certain amount of sense in *hostage* situations, which is what this was. The attacker in this story puts a gun to the kids head, rather than beats him with it. The attacker has \”paused\” the scenario for the possibility of a less violent outcome if the victims comply with his demands. This is an open door for negotiations. And I would definitely try diplomacy first if there’s a gun to a kids head.

In self defense situations however, the attacker forfeits peaceful resolution by placing someone directly in fight or flight decision as we see in these vids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6xnAaF8C-k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ50AoaLjIo

quote \”dps\:

I, of course, count on my disarming good looks and winsome smiles)
Could this responsably be taught and counted on as a technique? No.

While the technique of using your good looks and winsome smiles won’t work for others, maybe police depts and self-defense classes can train students to hold up pictures of you to would-be attackers or in hostage negotiations. Or maybe billboard advertising might intercept criminals on their way to commit the crimes in the first place.

[giant-killer]

Back from Vegas… 😥

Anyway, I think using negotiation can be an effective technique to use sometimes, at least until you can get yourself into a better position to defend. If you treat someone who is initially angry or aggressive with \”love\”, it may throw him off or ultimately lessen his aggression. Of course, this may not always work, but it could be worth a try, as happened in this situation. If he already had the gun to the child’s head, there would not have been any time to grab your own weapon and shoot. One would have needed to convince him to let down his guard first, then go for a defense at the right opportunity.

_________________
Giantkiller

[kravjeff]

Re:

quote \”dps\:

I disagree. These extreme \”turn the other cheek\” stories are actually not all that rare and actually DO make a certain amount of sense from a self defense perspective. It was a action that was so unexpected that it took the subject away from his game plan. This is something we try to capitalize on with pre-disarm questions. (I, of course, count on my disarming good looks and winsome smiles)
Could this responsably be taught and counted on as a technique? No.
But they assessed the situation, gambled, and won. Self defense was accomplshed.
I think a flip side of this needs to also be brought up. This family used a strong human angle to diffuse a threat of violence. Actions taken by aggressors to dehumanize (ie. bag over head, face on the ground, gun in mouth, \”put this on\”, \”take this off\”, etc) indicate an potential escalation.

True – And good point. The problem is, and you nailed it; THEY GAMBLED. Something I would not do with my families live’s.

[kravjeff]

Re:

quote \”Giant Killer\:

Back from Vegas… 😥

Anyway, I think using negotiation can be an effective technique to use sometimes, at least until you can get yourself into a better position to defend. If you treat someone who is initially angry or aggressive with \”love\”, it may throw him off or ultimately lessen his aggression. Of course, this may not always work, but it could be worth a try, as happened in this situation. If he already had the gun to the child’s head, there would not have been any time to grab your own weapon and shoot. One would have needed to convince him to let down his guard first, then go for a defense at the right opportunity.

_________________
Giantkiller

Stall, negotiate, maybe … The statement that you would not have time to draw and shoot is not necessarily true depending of course on the location of your own weapon. Tactically, even with gun in hand (or on hip) it might be impossible (e.g., perhaps another loved one is behind / in front of him) then there’s the pesky problem of his reaction to the shot. I doubt I’d risk him shooting kid after being shot. However, inviting him to dinner, in fact anything short of destruction would be waaaaayyyyyy down on my list of options.

Hope you had fun in Vegas 😉

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