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All,
I just finished reading this article. Read this for yourself. I will wait to give my critique until I have seen some of yours.
http://www.usadojo.com/articles/Israeli-Martial-Art-A-Look-Into-History.html
Re: This article is not at all biased (rolling my eyes)
I read it and it is biased, but I am just so tired of the politics… The politics of styles, instructors, schools, and all of that. I just want to train and not worry about who, what, when, and where… I learned for LE that not everything at the top is the best, sh!t floats- so you have to try things for yourself and not worry about the rest…
Re: This article is not at all biased (rolling my eyes)
Fine, you caught me. I developed Krav Maga yesterday, in my back yard.
But it still works. It delivers everything it claims. So whats the issue?
Re: This article is not at all biased (rolling my eyes)
.. Oh geez, sorry, some folks just have nothing better to do I suppose. Like Kirsten said, I wanna train. Whatever style you train in, if you’re happy with it (and hopefully not being mislead), that’s what matters.Re: This article is not at all biased (rolling my eyes)
interesting and much of it I already knew, I just don’t agree with how its presented.
Re: This article is not at all biased (rolling my eyes)
Hope this article show the world how unfunctional and lame this “Crab Naga” Is….
rofl2
Re: This article is not at all biased (rolling my eyes)
This article ignores the enormous leaps that make Krav Maga so compelling. The jumps from sport to streetfighting, and from military to civilian.
As the article says “In 1963 Imi retires from the IDF and opens his civilian Krav Maga club in Netanya.” And unfortunately did not expand on that point.
The development of the civilian curriculum is the main appeal of Krav Maga. Without it, it would just be a military fighting system, about as important or desirable as whatever it is they teach soldiers, anywhere. Useful to the soldiers, I’m sure, but not so appealing to the average joes that want to learn to defend themselves. The average joes who will plunk down $100 a month to learn something effective, fast, and field tested by people in harm’s way.
To call Imi “influential” in developing the civilian version, is like saying gambling provides some employment to Las Vegas. Is there anyone else that brought modern Krav Maga out of the military and into the civilian mainstream, besides Imi and his principal students? The article doesn’t mention anyone else by name, but treats that point as if there are others of equal import.
Anyway, Psyops I look forward to reading what you have to say.
Re: This article is not at all biased (rolling my eyes)
kapap yes has a place in israel culture and jewish defense units history and it does deserve that respect. but the fact is that imi brought his system to Israel and the idf, and was placed as a the commander of krav maga and physical training from 1948 when the idf was created.
at wingate, when we do our krav maga instructor course, the very first day we do a physical fitness test called baror to make sure all the instrucotrs are at a high level of fitness, then the rest of the day is in the class room, and the first lesson is about the history of imis life, how he created krav maga, how he brout it to israel, how it became the oficial system for the idf. there is not any single lesson about kapap, or any of the men in this article, or that krav maga slowly started to be created and only around the 1958 started existing, and of course no any any mention of krav magas cofonder moni aizik!
quick sombody send this article to the idf so they can fix there mistake about krav maga history and teach the right version of history to our instructors!
Re: This article is not at all biased (rolling my eyes)
This article also caught my eye: http://www.usadojo.com/take-action/petitions/krav-maga-worldwide-interview.htm
Re: This article is not at all biased (rolling my eyes)
That last interview is old and fake. The funny thing is, it used to be an “interview” with Darren, now it’s an “interview” with a corporation (KMW.) Bunch of clowns.
Re: This article is not at all biased (rolling my eyes)
Ok,
So I will give you all a little background. One of the authors Dana Stamos,is also the owner of usadojo.com. I know this because I have spoken with Dana on a number of occasions. She has an axe to grind and on some of her points I can follow her logic. However the bigger storyline with Dana is that she is very close to Avi Nardia of Kapap fame. Avi is allegedly a former student of Moni Aizik, this is not a Moni thread, I am just giving you background here. Anyways some of the conversations with Dana were productive.Some were not.
Avi and Moni are her council on all things related to Israeli Martial arts. So in an effort to bolster Avi’s claims regarding Kapap being the original and official system of Special Forces Units in the IDF they conjured up this article.
Dana is loyal to Avi and he has recently drawn some fire from folks in Israel because some of the claims he makes about his history in the IDF are questionable to say the least. Sound familiar? Anyways this is an attempt support a statement she made to me several months ago. She said “Imi was just one of the contributors to Krav Maga.” This is no doubt the garbage that Moni and Avi have fed her.
What’s interesting here is that the assertion made by Dana is that the history of Krav Maga has been distorted and therefore should not be taken as the gospel, despite the country of origins recognition of Imi as the creator of Krav Maga and the many first generation students who are still alive and well and teaching. I noticed that there was no mention of one of her chief advisors system being exposed as a fraud.
Dana has always maintained that the IDF “could not have known about each units specialized training because it was so spread out.” Failing to see the flaw in here own logic I pointed out that if the IDF was so unorganized that they failed to keep tabs on all of the training its soldiers were getting and with whom they were training, how could they authorize or sanction these individuals to “update Krav Maga” as some of here cohorts have claimed they were asked to do?
Lastly the “interview” with KMWW and formerly the interview with Darren Levine was a real sore spot with me. Actually that b.s. interview is the reason I called Dana in the first place. I felt that it was rude and disrespectful. Not only that it showed a complete lack of integrity when one of her primary supporters is a man who is a known liar. So I called her out about it. At the time on this very site there was a thread about Avi Nardia that had gotten Avi so upset that he was contemplating a law suit allegedly. So I suggested that she take that b.s. “interview” off of her website. If she would agree to do that,we would make sure that Avi Nardia would be treated with respect on these forums.
So when I spoke to the Admin about that thread he agreed that while Avi’s association with Moni is documented, he has not fabricated his past in terms of Krav Maga,therefore guilt by association was not applicable and this site should not participate in a witch hunt, hence the thread was removed. Dana recognized this and instead of taking her b.s. interview down she changed the name from Darren Levine to KMWW.
She also claimed that she would print a full story about Moni Aizik being exposed once “proof was offered”. To date no such story has been printed. She also claimed that she wanted to speak with Darren Levine to “clear the air”. I am not aware of any conversation that occurred despite members of KMWW attempting to make it happen.
Darren Levine does not need me or anyone else to fight this battle. It irritates me still that there are people with mediums like websites and print who openly disrespect KMWW and Darren Levine but hide and lay in bed with snakes. Sorry for the long post!
Re: This article is not at all biased (rolling my eyes)
Yeah that article is heavily biased and full of the politics behind it. My main issue with it is they attempt to make the article look like it’s factual and unbiased, but it’s very obviously skewed.
Typical usadojo.com nonense.
Re: This article is not at all biased (rolling my eyes)
A downside of looking into Krav in more detail is finding all these stupid politics behind it. For me, that is a real turn off and leaves me feeling dissapointed with Krav. Then I remember that it’s the system I am learning, and I don’t give a crap what these people argue about.
Re: This article is not at all biased (rolling my eyes)
There are political/historical/tradition squbbles like this associated with every martial art (less with KM as far as I can see compared to some TMAs). But, these squabbles are present in every single discipline you can imagine.
They all stem from the purist mindset. Purists are people who have done something for so long and are so accomplished at it that they become bored with it. Instead of moving on and challenging themselves in new ways, they try to strip back their discipline to its purest form.
Purists are like giant black holes that suck all the enthusiasm and fun out of every discipline by making others question themselves and the legitimacy of their success.
Purists are to be avoided at all costs in life if you wish to be happy and feel good about yourself.
Re: This article is not at all biased (rolling my eyes)
Psyops,
A very well written and informed post! Good job. This issue for some of us is upsetting to say the least. The good news is that the Class-Action Lawsuit against one of these guys you list (Moni Aizik) is in it’s infancy. Once the thing gets some steam up, the folks at USA.dojo will have no choice but to back-pedal or face the same fraud ramifications as the perpetrator himself. That is plainly spoken in the body of the suit. ANYONE, knowingly perpetuating a fraud whether they be the person in question or a subordinate, will be treated as one in the same. Including all articles derived from which NO RESEARCH or DUE DILIGENCE was used. You may want to look at some of the articles in BB Magazine. The writers in all of the articles in that mag. are supposed STUDENTS of or work for Moni. (Henry Kao, Avi Nardia, and Jim “I was really a truck driver” Wagoner)
While I too do not wish this to go as another thread of them, I wanted to set some of the back drop to this whole sorted mess. It will all come out soon my friends, the clock is ticking on these guys and they know it. Once again good job D. JL
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