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Re: Tolerating non-Krav Maga defensive tactics training
quote Eric Joyce:Question for the group…Do you think the reason that many Police Departments and POST Commisions don’t update or adopt the curriculum of Krav Maga is to avoid a law suits?
There is no one reason. $$$ plays a big part of it, ignorance plays another part, resistance to change, other pressures/politics, etc.
I remember asking this same question to one of the police officers that trains in KM out here and he said that the defensive tactics they teach at the academy are a joke.
Even if you have the “best” curriculum out there, it doesn’t guarantee “competence”. There really isn’t much time in an academy dedicated to DT/MA.
I asked him why the police department or the police academy didn’t adopt the KM curriculum? He said that is was a liability issue. No one (who? the public, LE personnel, LE administration?) wants to see a cop throwing punches, kicks or elbows at someone. I asked, “Even if you are defending yourself from a violent attack?”. He said yes, even then. It’s a sad commentary but it may be true for the rest of the police departments around the country which makes it difficult for them to adopt a new way of applying defensive tactics that will save a police officers life.
There is nothing wrong with using personal weapons (punches, kicks, elbows, knees, headbutts, etc) – unfortunately some LEOs are not taught that and some administrations/administrators also believe otherwise. LE uses of force are rarely pretty and are often incorrectly reviewed/judged/second guessed.
Like Kirsten said…one police officer at at time.
quote Eric Joyce:One of the things I find fascinating about Krav Maga is not so much the actual techniques themselves but rather the stress training scenarios that are so vitally important in LE training. Based off my research, if more stress scenario practice was done, it would greatly help officers in learning how to de-esculate a situation before it becomes physical.What research is that? IMO, stress based training helps you perform during stressful situations. Scenario based training helps mimic real life situations/circumstances. De-escalation type training (e.g. tactical communication, verbal judo, whatever) is good but, IMO, should not be counted on and should not be stressed over physically being able to end the fight/stop the threat/gain control over the situation.
Physical techniques would of course be the last resort (unless it was an explosive situation where one couldn’t de-escalate and they had to react).
IMO, deadly force is a last resort. Physical techniques are not and should not be taught that way.
Maybe some LE agencies would be more open to adopting KM as part of the training curriculm if scenario training was highlighted.
I don’t think that would make a difference. A lot of agencies do some sort of scenario training already. IMO, that’s not what is stopping them from bringing KM on board.
This could help dismiss some of the confusion or myths that KM is all about punching and kicking and that it is in fact a great learning tool for LE Personal. Oh well, all in due time I suppose 🙂
IMO, KM offers much more than just punching and kicking but, when punching and kicking is objectively reasonable and within policy, there is nothing wrong with punching and kicking some POS BG aggressively and explosively just like “how they do it in KM”…
Re: Tolerating non-Krav Maga defensive tactics training
Hi Don,
I certainly hope you didn’t take what I was saying the wrong way. I was merely offering some thoughts on the matter. Police Officers have the most difficult job in the world and I for one wish them all the best in their training. I wish more LE agencies would adopt KM for I think it is a great system that would give them the tools they need.
quote Don:IMO, KM offers much more than just punching and kicking but, when punching and kicking is objectively reasonable and within policy, there is nothing wrong with punching and kicking some POS BG aggressively and explosively just like “how they do it in KM”…Re: Tolerating non-Krav Maga defensive tactics training
quote Eric Joyce:Hi Don,I certainly hope you didn’t take what I was saying the wrong way. I was merely offering some thoughts on the matter. Police Officers have the most difficult job in the world and I for one wish them all the best in their training. I wish more LE agencies would adopt KM for I think it is a great system that would give them the tools they need.
I don’t think I’m taking what you said the wrong way and I’m not taking it negatively. I believe your heart is in the right place in supporting LE (thank you for that support!) but some of your opinions are unlearned/inexperienced when it comes to LE use of force.
I wouldn’t say that LE is “the most” difficult job in the world BUT it can be very challenging and frustrating (and deadly). IMO, we can never have enough training and KM training would be beneficial for every LEO (even the ones that don’t come into contact with BG’s on duty any more).
Re: Tolerating non-Krav Maga defensive tactics training
Thanks for the clarification Don. Good discussion.
Re: Tolerating non-Krav Maga defensive tactics training
Steve, when you are here next week, talk to me about these things. I have been working with the NC Justice Academy for a few years, and we have been successful in making some changes.
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