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Formal training such as Krav is fairly new to me and with this relatively fresh perspective on things, I submit this for discussion…
Throughout L1 and L2, I’ve had a few injuries -some moderate and short term and some that will linger and (likely) require long term management to prevent re-injury. Most, dare I say all, of my fellow L3 students are in the same boat. This comes with the turf and I/we accept it…
That said, I sometimes feel that not enough reminders and injury-avoidance insight is given to students -especially at the L1 stage.
In L1, a lot of new people show up and of course, they’re taught the techniques and given a few words about how not to make gross errors that lead to obvious injury. That said, the next thing that happens, is that the music is cranked-up, an environment of high-adrenaline is created and everyone is told to “go all out”. At this point, all the new folks with their unconditioned joints, tendons and ligaments go slamming away at tombstones and kick pads with great fury. -And while this is happening, the new people are leading-up to getting sprains, muscle pulls and the like. Often times, they’re out for a couple weeks and sometimes, they never come back.
Sometimes (and this is a thinly veiled request to the instructors) I wish more advice was given to the new students that they should be mindful of these hidden dangers.
I’m too old to endure the rigors of phase training to be an instructor but, with what I now know -and if I were an instructor, I would inform my students that gradually building-up their joints, tendons and ligaments is part of the training. A perfect time to do this would be during the warm-up and stretching at the beginning of the class.
Indeed, some new Krav students have prior training and experience or, have a little understanding of their own physiology and therefore, are less prone to sustaining a lingering injury. I submit however, that the adrenaline state we create, can overwhelm the inexperienced -and ultimately lead to injury that creeps-up on them.
Yes, we should crank-up the music; yes, we should create a high-energy environment and absolutely yes, we should ultimately work-out to the point of passing-out… but… I think we should also give lots of reminders (especially to the new folks) that they should strive to work-up gradually to condition their bodies so they can eventually become “mean, lean, fighting machines” so they can enjoy intense Krav training for a long time to come.
Why am I posting this??? Because it’s a cold, damp day at this moment and my left knee, left wrist and right groin tendon are screaming at me and reminding me that I should have been more careful in the beginning.
We get old too soon -and smart too late.
Re: Training, Injury and Education…
RFC, I enjoyed your post. And being 67 years old, I couldn’t agree more.
Re: Training, Injury and Education…
Oh man.. I hope you feel better soon.. I def agree with you. My instructor has told the class only once since I’ve been there to practice at a slow pace and gradually perform drills faster and with more force. A little discomfort is to be expected but not hurting pain. During my second or thirs class I over extended my right thigh and I wish I had the common sense to have practiced at a slower pace first.
Now I advise any training partner to start slow. But it is entirely up to them. As far as I am concerned, I try to get the technique down first then increase in speed and force.
Thanks for your post 🙂
Re: Training, Injury and Education…
It is without question the responsibility of the instructors to provide instruction in training safely. Things like proper warm up are a given, but instructors should also be pointing out moments in certain techniques that lend themselves to injury and offering ways to prevent the injury, such as making sure you have a feel for distance before throwing full extension punches and kicks where elbows and knees can get hyperextended. Correct pad holding is another big area instructors should be stressing… this list could go on forever. Individuals should have an idea where their own limitations lie, but instructors should no doubt be laying the ground work that creates a safe training environment.
Re: Training, Injury and Education…
Well, the nature of what we do is what it is, so injuries are going to happen. However, as Fred alluded to, people should not get injured as a result of negligence on the part of an instructor. That said, there also has to be a level of personal responsibility. Students know their bodies and limitations, so they have to take it upon themselves to work within that framework.
Re: Training, Injury and Education…
I am all for personal responsibility -believe me…
At my school, I have seen no negligence on behalf of the instructors. They issue very good advice/warnings about basic injury avoidance and of-course, everyone knows that mishaps and injury will occur.
I think though, that a lot of people go into this without much knowledge of how how easy it is to get carried away and when this happens, cummulative damage can happen. I wish this important informaton were better communicated.
For example, I did (still do?) jogging and cross-training. Everyone knows that you can get blisters on your feet. This is equivalent to getting an accidental black eye or potent kick in the groin. -It happens… We recover and we learn. No big deal.
If you pick-up any serious book about jogging or triathlon training, the first chapter is dedicated to proper training to avoid ITB injury, muscle adhesions and other serious long-term problems that can end your career.
I’m not an avid reader/follower of books on fighting or self defense but what I have seen, has made no mention of how to ramp-up. For those of us who really like this and wish to do this seriously and long-term, that’s important information to know.
I guess in my own way, I’m trying to get the word out so the more experience folks will pass the message to the less experienced.
BTW: What I’m saying is in no way intended to be critical of Krav or any of the instructors. Hope everyone realizes that.
quote Ryan:Well, the nature of what we do is what it is, so injuries are going to happen. However, as Fred alluded to, people should not get injured as a result of negligence on the part of an instructor. That said, there also has to be a level of personal responsibility. Students know their bodies and limitations, so they have to take it upon themselves to work within that framework.Re: Training, Injury and Education…
quote garddawg:RFC,
What is your age?I bet people are waiting with bated breath to see if I answer this one…
OK, I’m game :beer:.
Older than 48 and younger than 49.
FWIW: 5′ 10″, 163 lbs, 10-12% body fat.
Re: Training, Injury and Education…
The basis for a safe training environment is teaching the students from the begining the proper ways of training. While this will not in and of itself stave off some injuries it does set the groundwork for a safer training session. One thing to note: “If you cannot do the techniques properly slowly, you certainly will not be able to do them fast”. I am all in for getting things ramped up in class, it is after-all the KM way(i.e. pressure tests). But it can be done in a controlled. It is IMHO the Instrutors job in keeping an eye open for new unseasoned students. I work mine with upper-level students until they similate to our way of training. I hope this makes some sense to you.
Re: Training, Injury and Education…
Holy crap! You should totally set the rule for all level one/two students. I pulled my hammy, broke my rest, and busted my kneed all leading up to my level two test. God I wish I had someone like you slowing down the “be safe/ go balls to the wall” attitude.
I could be in level three class right now if I wasn’t walking with a limp
Re: Training, Injury and Education…
Hey RFC I always thought that a new student
conditioning class should be offered before there
krav class to get them warmed up and ready
for class.This is no disrespect to the way classes
are run just an idea.Re: Training, Injury and Education…
michaelmall,
My krav studio has both core and general fitness classes too. They are invaluable. Of course, part of every level class is a warm up but, it’s been helpful to me, to get there a little early if possible and do some pre-stretching etc.
-And like you, I have nothing but the highest respect for the Krav system and all the instructors who put so much effort and energy into teaching us.
quote michaelmall:Hey RFC I always thought that a new student
conditioning class should be offered before there
krav class to get them warmed up and ready
for class.This is no disrespect to the way classes
are run just an idea.Re: Training, Injury and Education…
Bracius,
I think I understood what your post meant… Hereís a clarification of mine.
It’s fine to train with all your ability and it seems perfectly logical to blast the music and get everyone’s adrenaline flowing… When you are setup up for a drill and instructor says “go”, I think the real test is your ability to control your adrenaline so you can be cognizant and as effective as possible under pressure. I think (and will stand corrected if wrong) our training is not just about learning defensive moves and engraining it into muscle memory, it’s also about learning how to control our minds under high-stress conditions so we can kick a** if/when the real deal comes upon us.
In some cases, I think the ìmind-controlî aspect is not mentioned enough.
I recently graduated into Level 3 and every day, I see people fall into the trap of consistently not controlling themselves under high-adrenaline conditions and it often leads to sudden or cumulative injury. This is what happened to me in L1 and early L2 and I take full responsibility for my mistakes. Now that I’ve learned from the school of hard knocks, I thought it might be helpful to pass the word on to others.
quote Bracius:Holy crap! You should totally set the rule for all level one/two students. I pulled my hammy, broke my rest, and busted my kneed all leading up to my level two test. God I wish I had someone like you slowing down the “be safe/ go balls to the wall” attitude.I could be in level three class right now if I wasn’t walking with a limp
Re: Training, Injury and Education…
The better you muscular development from working out the less likely you will have injuries. I’ve found from doing fitness class it has increased my strength and durability of my joints.
I’ve also learned that how you deal with injuries is as important as doing your training.
Back in 2007 I had to deal with a sever ankle injury from a skiing mishap. Fortunately I had a very innovative Ortho doctor that understood how to deal with injuries to athletic people and I came through and got back to 100%.
That recovery taught me a lot about working through injuries.
Re: Training, Injury and Education…
quote RFC:Bracius,I think I understood what your post meant… Hereís a clarification of mine.
It’s fine to train with all your ability and it seems perfectly logical to blast the music and get everyone’s adrenaline flowing… When you are setup up for a drill and instructor says “go”, I think the real test is your ability to control your adrenaline so you can be cognizant and as effective as possible under pressure. I think (and will stand corrected if wrong) our training is not just about learning defensive moves and engraining it into muscle memory, it’s also about learning how to control our minds under high-stress conditions so we can kick a** if/when the real deal comes upon us.
In some cases, I think the ìmind-controlî aspect is not mentioned enough.
I recently graduated into Level 3 and every day, I see people fall into the trap of consistently not controlling themselves under high-adrenaline conditions and it often leads to sudden or cumulative injury. This is what happened to me in L1 and early L2 and I take full responsibility for my mistakes. Now that I’ve learned from the school of hard knocks, I thought it might be helpful to pass the word on to others.
Yeah, pretty much right on the head. Its suppose to be controlled emotions, the intensity directed and focused…letting lose the hell fury but not blind rage. I think even JKD teaches this, emtions are a tool. To feel your energy flow in your techniques. I’m sure the JKD would be happy to talk about that.
Anywho, my fractured wrist actually came from an instructor in training (now an instructor). She blasted through the top mount reversal without giving me a nano-second to roll my wrist. My pulled hammy just comes from the stretching a different instructor had me doing. I didn’t take the best care of it and and I wasn’t about to let a hammy keep me from my level 2 test. Passed and then crashed… almost couldn’t walk the first week.
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