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Re: Update on the Houston man who shot his neighbor’s thieves
The 911 tape does seem to show premeditation. He says he’ll kill ’em and then he does. Why would they lunge at a guy who is pointing a shotgun at them, especially if they are unarmed? I don’t know if he could argue that he felt really threatened, especially if he had been told to stay inside. Interesting to see what a jury will find.
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GiantkillerRe: Update on the Houston man who shot his neighbor’s thieves
Yeah this is definately going to a fun one to watch. I am sure we will see Al Sharpton and all kinds of activists both for and against action here. You might also recall a Texas jury is the one that convicted those two Border Patrol agents to 10 and 11 years in prison for shooting that drug dealer in the butt though so who knows how this could swing.
As far as lunging at the guy who knows maybe the two guys were trying to defend themselves and one of them went for the gun. We all know people can and do make interesting decisions under duress. Then again maybe the guy just went outside and blasted away and claimed defense later.
I am sure my Marine Corp buddies will argue this is a clear cut case of why we should be allowed to have landmines in our front yard.
Re: Update on the Houston man who shot his neighbor’s thieves
Who needs a land mine? I just keep dogs.
Re: Update on the Houston man who shot his neighbor’s thieves
LOL I do but I’m kind of fond of them 🙂 If someone shot one of my pitts I would be very unhappy.
Re: Update on the Houston man who shot his neighbor’s thieves
Further proof that having a gun makes people stupid and arrogant. Mr. Macho is now remorseful? Why didn’t he think things through beforehand? It’s not rocket science. He had lots of choices. So he went out thinking “I’m going to shoot them” then entered his yard possibly thinking “I’m just curious about the guy” then saw him and said “Oh crap!” and fired? If the burglar had fired first this guy would have won a Darwin award (but for being old enough to have spawned more stupid people).
I used to live in Texas and a friend who was a rape survivor got a license to carry a concealed weapon. A guy entered her house and she informed him if he moved one inch he’d be dead, and she kept the gun pointed at him as she called 911 with the other hand. If she could show that restraint I think someone whose neighbor was the victim certainly could have.
Re: Update on the Houston man who shot his neighbor’s thieves
quote Guerriere:Further proof that having a gun makes people stupid and arrogant.I’d like some clarification on this comment. Care to elaborate?
I’m also curious as to why so many people are focusing on the “orders” of the 911 operator. They have no authority.
I agree with v on this one (as much as it pains me.) Two people were doing things they shouldn’t be doing. They decided to break into a house, then decided to venture into the neighbors yard. Is the shooter alone? Does he have family members? He doesn’t know the intent of the criminals. They obviously came into his yard. Why? Was his house next? I’d rather take the fight to them, than wait and endanger my family.
Also, the comments about “bystanders” really bother me. If we had less “bystanders”, and more people willing to stand up against bullies, criminals, terrorists, etc., we’d have less of this kind of crap (I’m not necessarily talking about this incident, but the whole “it’s not my problem” attitude.)
There’s a thin line between self defense and being a vigilante. I don’t know which this falls into, and the 911 comments certainly don’t help the guy’s case, but I’m not ready to convict him because “guns make people stupid” or he should have just remained a “bystander”.
My 2 cents.
Re: Update on the Houston man who shot his neighbor’s thieves
quote Guerriere:Further proof that having a gun makes people stupid and arrogant.So owning a gun makes people stupid and arrogant? Or stupid, arrogant people go out and buy guns?
Like you said, the guy had options. It’s not a decision I would have made, but I still believe he’s legally entitled to go out in his own yard. If I hear a noise downstairs, I’d probably go investigate. Same if I thought someone was messing around my garage. The last thing I’d do however, is walk outside with a gun once I knew the police might be showing up any minute.
Your friend held someone at gunpoint until the police arrived, I’m glad she didn’t have to shoot. But she didn’t have to shoot because the guy didn’t lunge at her. If I were the guy in Texas, I’d have stayed inside. But he shot because he said the two guys lunged at him.
For the sake of debate, I can see where it might not go with “premeditated” from the 911 call:
quote :“Don’t go outside the house,” the 911 operator pleaded. “You’re gonna get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don’t care what you think.”“You wanna make a bet?” Horn answered. “I’m gonna kill ’em.”
The 911 operator issued a warning that Mr Horn would get shot. I could see where that warning might be interpreted as “they’ll kill (shoot) you if you go outside”, to which Mr Horn replies “oh no they wont, I’ll kill them”, probably because he knows he’s got a 12 gauge shotgun for defense. He goes outside, the bad guys charge Mr Horn who panics and now knows the gravity behind taking someone’s life and is therefore remorseful.
What if he went outside without the gun and was stabbed or beaten with a tire iron? Instead of having this discussion, we’d be talking about how violent America is and how necessary self-defense is. What if someone uses Krav Maga and unintentionally kills someone with one or two too many knees to the head of their attacker? Two people died because Mr Horn left his house and defended himself. Whether he used a gun, a knife, a garden hose, or his bare hands, he found himself in a position where he feared for his life and right now he’s still alive and his attackers aren’t.
I still think he’s only guilty of going into his own front yard. Personally, I wouldn’t have gone outside, but Mr Horn did. It’s not illegal to go outside. It’s not even illegal to go outside carrying a weapon. It is illegal to break into houses, and the Darwin awards are probably best awarded to the two unarmed attackers who charged someone holding a 12 gauge shotgun in Texas.
I don’t own any guns btw. But I have been thinking of getting a Desert Eagle for the novelty of it. thumbsup
Edit: Sorry, just saw Ryans post: I agree with v on this one (as much as it pains me.)
rofl… if it helps I agree with u on almost everything u say, but don’t comment because I feel I’ve worn out my welcome with a few ppl here. I’m just glad the guy didn’t kill the attackers with a RNC.Re: Update on the Houston man who shot his neighbor’s thieves
V, I feel your pain. I’ve cut down on my participation here, as well–this one just really gets me. All the best.
Re: Update on the Houston man who shot his neighbor’s thieves
Having a gun makes people stupid. “Hey I have a gun. I don’t have to have good sense because my gun will protect me from everything. The gun is my magic protector and with my trusty gun that ends all argument.”
BTW, part of why I’m in krav is because my workplace is dangerous. Two of our security guards have been hurt on the job. One of them is on permanent disability thanks to a homeless guy he woke up on the sidewalk. The other one took a sucker punch to the nose. They have guns. They don’t need no self defense skills. They don’t need no interpersonal skills. They have … *oh crap* … *thud* None of our security guards has ever drawn their guns yet they train to stay qualified for handguns and expect everyone to see a guy with a gun and say “oh nevermind officer I’ll behave.”
Civilians with guns are much the same – they think that having a gun confers some kind of magical protection that obviates the kind of skills and common sense they’d need without it. So… the guy has a shotgun and he thinks that will settle things. He’s just lucky the gun didn’t jam. What was his back-up plan? How did he know the cops wouldn’t show up and mistake him for the burglar? Stupid stupid stupid.
Re: Update on the Houston man who shot his neighbor’s thieves
quote Guerriere:Having a gun makes people stupid. “Hey I have a gun. I don’t have to have good sense because my gun will protect me from everything. The gun is my magic protector and with my trusty gun that ends all argument.”BTW, part of why I’m in krav is because my workplace is dangerous. Two of our security guards have been hurt on the job. One of them is on permanent disability thanks to a homeless guy he woke up on the sidewalk. The other one took a sucker punch to the nose. They have guns. They don’t need no self defense skills. They don’t need no interpersonal skills. They have … *oh crap* … *thud* None of our security guards has ever drawn their guns yet they train to stay qualified for handguns and expect everyone to see a guy with a gun and say “oh nevermind officer I’ll behave.”
Civilians with guns are much the same – they think that having a gun confers some kind of magical protection that obviates the kind of skills and common sense they’d need without it. So… the guy has a shotgun and he thinks that will settle things. He’s just lucky the gun didn’t jam. What was his back-up plan? How did he know the cops wouldn’t show up and mistake him for the burglar? Stupid stupid stupid.
This message is brought to you by Americans who have fought and died for everyone’s right to freedom of speech and the right to keep and bear arms. thumbsup
Re: Update on the Houston man who shot his neighbor’s thieves
I don’t disagree with having guns, just that having a gun isn’t a magic panacea or that having a gun makes it okay to do something bone-headedly stupid and then claim self-defense. Didn’t that guy ever see “Home Alone?” You can defend yourself from inside your home without going outside to present a target. If the burglar started breaking into his home he’d have heard it and could have shot the guy at that point. He had no evidence that he was any kind of target and then he turned himself into a target by leaving the safety of his home.
‘HEY BURGLAR I’M OVER HERE’ oh crap the burglar sees me *BANG*
I still think it’s one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard of.
Re: Update on the Houston man who shot his neighbor’s thieves
quote Guerriere:I don’t disagree with having guns, just that having a gun isn’t a magic panacea or that having a gun makes it okay to do something bone-headedly stupid and then claim self-defense. Didn’t that guy ever see “Home Alone?” You can defend yourself from inside your home without going outside to present a target. If the burglar started breaking into his home he’d have heard it and could have shot the guy at that point. He had no evidence that he was any kind of target and then he turned himself into a target by leaving the safety of his home.‘HEY BURGLAR I’M OVER HERE’ oh crap the burglar sees me *BANG*
I still think it’s one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard of.
And I think you’re criminalizing Mr Horn for becoming involved rather than waiting to become a victim. You say it was stupid, I’m sure at the time he felt he was going to be proactive in helping to eliminate crime. So far, you’re slamming him for what didn’t happen. The gun didn’t jam. They didn’t shoot him. The police didn’t mistake him for a criminal.
Agreed, it was a risky thing to do and I don’t advocate that anyone put their life on the line over property… but because someone does it doesn’t make them a backwoods idiot simply because they happen to own a gun.
There are simply people out there that don’t do what they are supposed to according to you. I have yet to hear you say the two attackers shouldn’t have been breaking into his neighbors house. I have yet to hear u say they shouldn’t have charged at a 61 year old man. So far, the only criminal u’ve identified is Mr Horn because he left the safety of his house while carrying a gun.
You’re mixing two concepts here: gun ownership makes you stupid, and taking matters into your own hands jeopardizes your safety.
Maybe this: owning a gun makes people brave, therefore they put themselves into dangerous situations better left for the police or trained security personnel? When the city puts a guard shack in my front yard complete with 24 hr security, I’ll agree that I should stand back and let the pros handle it. Until then there just may be a point where sitting back and waiting would be either morally wrong or could pose added danger for myself or others.
The man in the story said he was going outside to see which way they were going probably to tell the police so he could do his part to clean up his neighborhood. The warning from the 911 operator becomes a challenge for Mr Horn, so he grabs his shotgun because of the danger outside while he’s gathering his info. I don’t think that makes him a vigilante. He knows the danger outside yet his civic duty compels him to make sure they get caught.
We’ll disagree. Gun ownership doesn’t indicate stupidity and Mr Horn wasn’t necessarily trying to be a vigilante. That point will be for a jury if charges are filed. I have to point out that your posts are sort of a blanket statement that pools all (civilian) gun owners into this definition of being stupid and arrogant. Maybe that isn’t what u meant?
Re: Update on the Houston man who shot his neighbor’s thieves
Oh, okay. You know two arrogant security guards, ergo all gun owners are stupid. Got it, thanks.
I’ll agree to disagree. This will go about as far as the CKM thread.
Re: Update on the Houston man who shot his neighbor’s thieves
quote CJs Dad:Bathrooms in the center of the house and the bathtub is the safest place for the baby.The wife hates pink LOL and the shells in the bathroom are called Black Talons
Think Mr & Mrs Smith and youíll know what our friends think of us.
Hubby WOULD love to see your toys:D Hell, so would Ithumbsup
Re: Update on the Houston man who shot his neighbor’s thieves
quote vwr32:And I think you’re criminalizing Mr Horn for becoming involved rather than waiting to become a victim. You say it was stupid, I’m sure at the time he felt he was going to be proactive in helping to eliminate crime. So far, you’re slamming him for what didn’t happen. The gun didn’t jam. They didn’t shoot him. The police didn’t mistake him for a criminal.Agreed, it was a risky thing to do and I don’t advocate that anyone put their life on the line over property… but because someone does it doesn’t make them a backwoods idiot simply because they happen to own a gun.
There are simply people out there that don’t do what they are supposed to according to you. I have yet to hear you say the two attackers shouldn’t have been breaking into his neighbors house. I have yet to hear u say they shouldn’t have charged at a 61 year old man. So far, the only criminal u’ve identified is Mr Horn because he left the safety of his house while carrying a gun.
You’re mixing two concepts here: gun ownership makes you stupid, and taking matters into your own hands jeopardizes your safety.
Maybe this: owning a gun makes people brave, therefore they put themselves into dangerous situations better left for the police or trained security personnel? When the city puts a guard shack in my front yard complete with 24 hr security, I’ll agree that I should stand back and let the pros handle it. Until then there just may be a point where sitting back and waiting would be either morally wrong or could pose added danger for myself or others.
The man in the story said he was going outside to see which way they were going probably to tell the police so he could do his part to clean up his neighborhood. The warning from the 911 operator becomes a challenge for Mr Horn, so he grabs his shotgun because of the danger outside while he’s gathering his info. I don’t think that makes him a vigilante. He knows the danger outside yet his civic duty compels him to make sure they get caught.
We’ll disagree. Gun ownership doesn’t indicate stupidity and Mr Horn wasn’t necessarily trying to be a vigilante. That point will be for a jury if charges are filed. I have to point out that your posts are sort of a blanket statement that pools all (civilian) gun owners into this definition of being stupid and arrogant. Maybe that isn’t what u meant?
If you insist on misunderstanding and mischaracterizing everything I say then there’s really nothing more I can say. I said the man is “stupid” and that having a gun makes people stupid, not that stupid people get guns. What he did was an incredibly stupid thing to do. He was safe where he was and he put himself in danger. He felt he could do that because he had a gun. Brave maybe, but foolishly brave. He’s no hero, just a lucky fool.
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