Venting, need advice

[newkravaddict]

…had my worst Krav class ever today, been pissed off all day.

Without giving too many details and giving my identity away (only one person knows who I am on here), I wanted to ask you all for some advice.

I went to class without my \”usual\” training partner. I know its good to pair up with different people, but what do you do when your new partner isn’t using proper form and therefore making you look bad during drills?

After repeated corrections, they kept doing things funny, making my own defense look like a remedial defense. The worst part is the instructor came over and kept correcting ME, but didn’t seem to notice my partner’s form.

By the end of the class, I just was so pissed off, had a bad attitude and I just wanted to leave, making me look like a bigger a$$hol3..

now, I know what some of you are thinking, and you’re right. No, my own defensive technique wasn’t perfect, but this was a Level 1 technique and I wouldn’t have been able to advance without knowing how to deliver it properly. Plus, like I said, I acknowlege, this was the WORST delivery I’ve ever seen, but having gone over it in my head all day, I AM POSITIVE that the form from the offense was just as much, if not MORE to blame.

I am a perfectionist and I’m trying not to dwell on this, but it just upset me that the partner coudlnt’ catch on, even after addressing it and that the instructor came at the worst moment as well.

[krav8541]

Yeah, I feel your pain. I ended up inadvertently touching off a hugely misconstrued debate on a topic like this last November (see \”I Can’t Believe it’s come to this…\”) where my overzealous training partners had chased off veteran KM’ers due to injuries, sloppy idiots who’d accidently throw elbows into your head and miss the tombstone pads and crush your fingers with kicks, etc. Good news is that you aren’t hurt, at least not that you mentioned. You write that you are a perfectionist, and I could see this working against you, simply because sloppy form will not only look bad, but could get someone injured, hopefully not you. As a perfectionist you should be able to sling out an elbow, and stop it an inch from someone’s nose, but many don’t have that type of physical ability. You need to speak up and find someone else to train with, tell of your concerns immediately, tell them, eyeball to eyeball so that nothing is misunderstood, \”hey, these guys aren’t doing this right. Tell ’em to fix it\”. Don’t ask them to fix it, tell ’em. Make the instructor make them fix the problem. We had a guy where we were doing headlock from the side releases, and he’d hit you with a rear naked choke \”cause this could happen on the street\”. He did this to my training partner, who later retaliated by an \”accidental\” knee to the guys forehead, which went \”sssqqqiiiiissshhh\”, and I couldn’t stop laughing as the \”attacker\” grew a little head out of his head. As for looks, really there isn’t anything pretty about KM, it’s not that type of \”martial art\”. It’s kinda the Rosie O’Donnell of RBSD. Or maybe that cow Rosanne. But it does work extremely well, and that’s all that matters.

[vwr32]

Re:

quote \”Krav8541\:

It’s kinda the Rosie O’Donnell of RBSD.

Nothing is that brutal….

[leejam99]

ya…that sucks. I think that has happen to most us of sometime in our training. Best advise i can give you is to keep your head up and don’t let it bother you too much with situations where you have no control over….and obviously avoid that guy in the future 🙂

And isnít it funny that its always right when you do one thing wrong….the instructor happens to be watching!

As a Krav instructor my self, I have been a victim of this many times…again, brush it off and don’t let it get to you. You know that your doing a good job and you know the technique. If your consistent, I guarantee that the instructor knows it also.

If you get stuck with a partner like this again, hereís what I would do. When your partner starts to make mistakes, instead of trying to fix it your self, bring over the instructor and have him help out. This way, he can see what the problem isÖto be polite you can say ìÖhold on a second..this doesnít feel right. Lets ask the instructorî. Once the instructor sees you two in action, he/she should be able to know what the problem is.

Again, donít let it get to you too much. Life is full of situations where you have no control of the outcome. Brush it off and show what your made of in the next class.

Oh, one thing I would definitely advise you to do is to find and stay with a partner that you work well with for your belt tests. Thereís nothing worse than having to take a belt test with someone that you have never worked withÖespecially if they are not so good or even worseÖ.NO CONTROL!

Good luck and keep training!

[newkravaddict]

Thanks for the replies, especially you leejam99.

One of the instructors was there, but she was so focused on seeing that I was doing the defense wrong, she didn’t realize it was partially because of my partner’s technique.

It was just embarrassing because Im guessing she was going \”how did he get to this level??!\”, because I’d be saying the same thing.

Furthermore, I’m sorry to say for the last drill, by the time we got there I was so pissed off I was half assing it, just waiting to line up and go home…. and of course she saw me half assing it, further adding to here \”wtf??!!\” kind of looks I was getting from her.

I should have known i was in trouble from the beginning when the guy kept holding the focus mitt at about a 60 degree angle for me when I was supposed to jab the mitt. I kept physically bending his wrist/pad back up straight. It only took about 5 tries.

Days like this make me value my usual partner and it almost makes me never want to go to class without him…

[leejam99]

damn instructors! what do they know!! haha 8)

trust me when i say that we..and that girl instructor including have all been at there. I was just at the NTC on some instructor training and the one time that i made some goofy mistake on the most simple technique, the instructor caught it and he gave me that same look…but it was \”…your an instructor!\”. haha…like i said, shrug it off. i know i’m good at what i do and through out the rest of the training, i was able to prove it. So again, keep your head up and show that instructor what your made of the next time you take her class!

[vwr32]

A while back, a new guy showed up and was holding the pad against his chest for some simple jab/cross drills. I know how to throw a punch and did long before I ever started krav. But this guy would lunge into my punches with a turning motion to his right or left in anticipation of the impact. Not just a little… but a lot. It caused me to roll my wrist over and over. I kept trying to stress how important it was for him to stop, and that it was killing my wrist. He’d do ok for a couple shots, then back to lunging. By the time the instructor came around I had started pulling my shots to keep from any further pain… and he told me I needed to hit harder.

At the end, I told the guy he did great even tho I knew I’d be taking the week off from lifting because of my wrists. He never came back.

Today I worked with a lady, it was her first day. She had horrible form no matter who tried to correct her. When it was my turn to punch (again jabs/cross to tombstone pad), I took it easy because I could tell she wasn’t ready for full force. Of course, I was told to hit harder by the instructor and ended up looking like I couldn’t throw a punch. It was more important to me that I made the new person feel like coming back. So at the end I smiled and told her she did great… which she did imo. She didn’t give up and at least she’s trying. Proper technique and form will come in time, she’s in the right class.

I try to see it as not being solely about me. Yeah, it pisses me off that I don’t get the recognition I feel I should for some things…. but if I put myself in the other person’s shoes, I’d hate to have someone who didn’t want to train with me because I suck. I mean, that’s *why* they are there isn’t it? And if I can have a hand in bringing someone from bad to good without making them feel insignificant, I feel pretty good about myself. There will be other classes for me to show my colors. I’ve had some REALLY talented people show me some patience on the mats and I was very appreciative. I have to give that back when I can. 😉

[unstpabl1]

Boo-hoo, Newkravaddict, my technique would have beern good, if my partner had held the pads better and the instructor was picking on me and they ruined the whole class for me so I quit on myself and now I need to vent cause I’m so pisseed off and from now on I’m only going to train with my buddy, who makes me look good, so teach can give me strokes and I can leave class feeling good about myself 😛

Guess that probably wasn’t what you wanted to hear 😆 Too bad, shit happens, when you work with people. Its part of the process. There is an interseting dynamic that happens with students coaching each other and the resistence that creates. You got to learn to deal with it from yourself and from others. Its part of learning krav. Some of your peers may be unworkable, sometimes you’ll find your the problem but only if your willing to look at your responsibility in the situation.

Show up, shut up and train. Do the best you can with what your given and try to learn something. I get the feeling your going to learn more from this than stayng with your friends in that nice safe comfort zone you’ve been hiding in, in the past. 😉

i would draw the line on people I deem wild or dangerous. There is a difference.

NKA, you’ll either get where I’m coming from or not. its up to you. same with getting something from all your training expiriences.

hope your doing great otherwise
mike

[newkravaddict]

Re:

quote \”unstpabl1\:

Boo-hoo, Newkravaddict, my technique would have beern good, if my partner had held the pads better and the instructor was picking on me and they ruined the whole class for me so I quit on myself and now I need to vent cause I’m so pisseed off and from now on I’m only going to train with my buddy, who makes me look good, so teach can give me strokes and I can leave class feeling good about myself 😛

Guess that probably wasn’t what you wanted to hear 😆 Too bad, shit happens, when you work with people. Its part of the process. There is an interseting dynamic that happens with students coaching each other and the resistence that creates. You got to learn to deal with it from yourself and from others. Its part of learning krav. Some of your peers may be unworkable, sometimes you’ll find your the problem but only if your willing to look at your responsibility in the situation.

Show up, shut up and train. Do the best you can with what your given and try to learn something. I get the feeling your going to learn more from this than stayng with your friends in that nice safe comfort zone you’ve been hiding in, in the past. 😉

i would draw the line on people I deem wild or dangerous. There is a difference.

NKA, you’ll either get where I’m coming from or not. its up to you. same with getting something from all your training expiriences.

hope your doing great otherwise
mike

Whoa, hold on a second. I never said anything about training to look good. If I was just training to look good, I’d just spar against YOU! 😉 HAHAHA. And trust me, I look this pretty all the time, no matter what I do. 😀

All joking aside, I DO understand where you’re coming from (as always) and I hear ya. And I also appreciate your words.

The only thing I didn’t agree with is the \”show up, shut up, and train\” I did show up, did shut up, and because I shut up, I coudn’t train PROPERLY.

And also, the pad holding was corrected, the part that screwed me up was self defense. The offensive move was not performed correctly, not allowing me to properly practice the defensive drill, different than simple pad holding.

I guess what I learned from this is to keep correcting my partner (when needed) so proper technique is used and we all learn from the drill.

I’ll just speak up (respectfully, of course) from now on.

Thanks for the replies. I’m done venting.

[unstpabl1]

Re:

[quote=\”NewKravAddict
Whoa, hold on a second. I never said anything about training to look good. If I was just training to look good, I’d just spar against YOU! 😉 HAHAHA. And trust me, I look this pretty all the time, no matter what I do. 😀

All joking aside, I DO understand where you’re coming from (as always) and I hear ya. And I also appreciate your words.

The only thing I didn’t agree with is the \”show up, shut up, and train\” I did show up, did shut up, and because I shut up, I coudn’t train PROPERLY.

And also, the pad holding was corrected, the part that screwed me up was self defense. The offensive move was not performed correctly, not allowing me to properly practice the defensive drill, different than simple pad holding.

I guess what I learned from this is to keep correcting my partner (when needed) so proper technique is used and we all learn from the drill.

I’ll just speak up (respectfully, of course) from now on.

Thanks for the replies. I’m done venting.[/quote]

The shut up part is more about more time training and less time jawing dsuring class, coaching. I like to crack jokes, but I could seriously go through an hour class and never talk to you about what we’re doing. I’m pretty chatty, but i found most partners think the other guy is doing it wrong 😆 Hell, I always think the other guy is doing it wrong 😉 ,especially when I can’t make it work.

You got choices, try to make the tech work and look at options, cause the BG on the street ain’t going to do it the way you want him to. Unless he’s a very cordial and accomodating guy/gal 😆

If its really feeling awkward bring the instructor over. There is an art to tact. Tell her your having trouble with the tech. The attack feels awkward to me. Don’t blame the other guy, cause now he’s defensive. If she looks at the tech and he’s doing it wrong , she’ll tell him. If not, its on you. if the guy attacks you one way, while the instructors there and another way when she’s not looking, he’s being a dick. Get what you can get outta the session and avoid him

Its all part of training. Of course you find people who you enjoy working out with, but everyones a lesson, even the dicks 😆

[vwr32]

Re:

quote \”unstpabl1\:

cause the BG on the street ain’t going to do it the way you want him to.

He could be attacked by his normal workout partner…

[clfmak]

Re: Venting, need advice

quote \”NewKravAddict\:

I went to class without my \”usual\” training partner. I know its good to pair up with different people, but what do you do when your new partner isn’t using proper form and therefore making you look bad during drills?

I’m not exactly sure on the situation, but I think the attitude that you shouldn’t look bad when you train can be counterproductive to learning martial arts in the long run (I’m not a veteran martial artist, but I’ve been around a good while). I try to keep a spirit of play in what I do, even though I may be exchanging hard shots with somebody or grappling with a high level of intensity. Looking good is just not that important. I think part of it is that thinking about looking bad gets you out of the moment, and also can prevent you from taking risks for fear of looking bad. I’ve sparred people of many different backgrounds- sometimes I do well, sometimes I am totally outclassed (unstpabl1 knows a guy named Clyde I’ve sparred- super high ranking in kempo and a hell of a good unorthodox fighter, or recently I got to do some padded stick sparring with one of the Dog Brothers). Either way I am glad for the experience. If I was worried about looking bad, I would never get these opportunities.

To illustrate, here’s me getting housed while sparring a professional fighter who I already know is far better than me (I’m in white shirt):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S3D7xV_gZQ
Yeah, I don’t do well, but I realize that I’m in this for the long run and I won’t do this forever if I can’t have fun with it. I also figure I have lots of time to get better. I’ve been training for years and I train over ten hours a week, realizing that real skill takes a long time to build. Every high level practitioner I’ve worked with in various styles can all laugh at themselves when they screw up something.

[newkravaddict]

Re: Venting, need advice

quote \”CLFMak\:

quote \”NewKravAddict\:

I went to class without my \”usual\” training partner. I know its good to pair up with different people, but what do you do when your new partner isn’t using proper form and therefore making you look bad during drills?

I’m not exactly sure on the situation, but I think the attitude that you shouldn’t look bad when you train can be counterproductive to learning martial arts in the long run (I’m not a veteran martial artist, but I’ve been around a good while). I try to keep a spirit of play in what I do, even though I may be exchanging hard shots with somebody or grappling with a high level of intensity. Looking good is just not that important. I think part of it is that thinking about looking bad gets you out of the moment, and also can prevent you from taking risks for fear of looking bad. I’ve sparred people of many different backgrounds- sometimes I do well, sometimes I am totally outclassed (unstpabl1 knows a guy named Clyde I’ve sparred- super high ranking in kempo and a hell of a good unorthodox fighter, or recently I got to do some padded stick sparring with one of the Dog Brothers). Either way I am glad for the experience. If I was worried about looking bad, I would never get these opportunities.

To illustrate, here’s me getting housed while sparring a professional fighter who I already know is far better than me (I’m in white shirt):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S3D7xV_gZQ
Yeah, I don’t do well, but I realize that I’m in this for the long run and I won’t do this forever if I can’t have fun with it. I also figure I have lots of time to get better. I’ve been training for years and I train over ten hours a week, realizing that real skill takes a long time to build. Every high level practitioner I’ve worked with in various styles can all laugh at themselves when they screw up something.

Yes, I’m staying in on a saturday, and yes, I’m on the board.

Ok, when i said \”look bad\” I didn’t mean it in the sense of say trying to \”look good\” like a sugar ray leonard. It was a wrong choice of words and people are taking it the wrong way.

I’ll use 360 defenses as an example. When in level 1, if the attacker doesn’t make large, slow, deliberate attacks, but makes small, fast one where the defender does not have time to 1. Make a knifehand 2. 90 degree bend at elbow 3. put weight into the defense and they end up just kind of slap defending, the attacker is making the defender (the student trying to learn) LOOK BAD.

This was the exact example used during a belt test, the highly respected instructor told the attackers to make the \”airplane\” arms and attack deliberately and with weight, so the person being graded could respond accordingly.

Now THAT is what I meant about \”looking bad\” aka not doing the defeinse correctly.

I have fallen on my fat ass in class so many times, \”looking good\” is not one of my priorities.

[giant-killer]

I think unstpabl and CFLMak nailed it. It’s not about looking pretty for the teacher, is about learning. We often learn far more from our mistakes than from our victories. Always staying with the same partner is playing it safe. In the long run, you will learn less, because you will get used to him and the way he is performing a technique and you’ll never learn to adjust. You can never be sure how a person is going to attack you in real life. What if he attacks you \”funny\” in the street? You couldn’t tell him to please attack you differently, because that’s the way you’ve always practiced it with your trusty partner. You’d have to adapt to whatever it is he is doing. So, having a bit of an unconventional partner on occasion can help you learn how to do that.

If I run into someone like that, I don’t correct him, I just go with it. I don’t know what level you are, but as you progress, you’ll see people do all kinds of \”funny\” things. Gun defenses for example, some people will not recoil the gun (as an attacker will most likely do), but will resist your motion of pushing the weapon forward. Not realistic that an actual attacker will do that, but it will give me a chance to switch from the automatic, ingrained defense to something different, maybe a two-handed technique. Or I will be able to go against pressure and see if I can still break the person’s grip. Doing it a few times with resistance, can help improve your overall technique and speed when you’ll work with the next guy, who will not resist your motion.

So, I wouidn’t worry about it too much (just read your own signature… 🙂 ) Be adventurous. Go with different guys (and girls). If someone attacks you \”funny\”, exercise your brain and find a way to deal with it. This might prevent you from being stumped in the street, which is ultimately more important than getting that approving look from your instructor every time you train.

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Giantkiller

[giant-killer]

NKA,

I wrote the previous thing before seeing your last post, just letting you know… 🙂

Of course I wasn’t there, so I don’t know if his attacks really made the defense impossible or just harder. 360 defense should also work against narrower attacks (for example you may have to do one against a knife slash later on, when the arm is coming in really tight). So, while maybe not excactly what the instructor had ordered, still possibly something to learn from.

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Giantkiller

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