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Re: Weapons Training
I’d like to believe that if I had the weapon in my hand, I’d at least be able to tell if its a water gun or real gun due to it’s weight. Whether its loaded or not… maybe. I haven’t used firearms enough to be able to tell off the bat.
Re: Weapons Training
quote KMyoshi:I’d like to believe that if I had the weapon in my hand, I’d at least be able to tell if its a water gun or real gun due to it’s weight. Whether its loaded or not… maybe. I haven’t used firearms enough to be able to tell off the bat.http://www.airrattle.com/High_Powered_Heavy_Weight_229_Airsoft_Hand_Gun_p/yt382.htm
In a high stress situation, I can’t say for sure I’d notice some airsoft guns aren’t the real thing. Not to mention it could be a real gun that’s just broken (missing firing pin, etc).
Re: Weapons Training
quote stuartf:http://www.airrattle.com/High_Powered_Heavy_Weight_229_Airsoft_Hand_Gun_p/yt382.htmIn a high stress situation, I can’t say for sure I’d notice some airsoft guns aren’t the real thing. Not to mention it could be a real gun that’s just broken (missing firing pin, etc).
Exactly. We just had a shooting happen in Brownsville TX. A middle schooler was walking the halls with what looked like a real gun. Officers told him to drop it as he was walking, he refused and was shot. The gun was a pellet gun.
I had an airsoft gun that I brought to a gun seminar and a KM instructor actually thought it was the real thing.
It used to be on the pellet guns it had the ‘red ring’ that you could tell it wasn’t real. I just saw on the news today that’s not always the case anymore.
Re: Weapons Training
IMHO if you point a gun at an officer, real or not you are going to get whats coming to you. Now if he wasn’t pointing it and they fired at him, that’s a different story.
There are airsoft gun manufacturers that are not putting the orange/red ring around the barrel anymore. In fact, I purchased a BB gun that looks just like a Beretta and this was probably 8 years ago. As “cool” as it may be to have a pellet/BB gun look like the real thing, it’s not safe at all for the user… than again, they shouldn’t be using it anywhere other than in the home or in designated airsoft businesses where competitions take place.
Re: Weapons Training
IMbiasedO, if you criminally point a gun at ANYone (especially an LEO), you deserve whatever is coming to you.
Also, FWIW, LEOs do NOT have to wait until a firearm is pointed at them before they can righteously shoot. JFYI, if a suspect has his/her hand already gripping a gun, they can EASILY point and get a shot off in LESS THAN 1/4 (.25) seconds – and that’s from just about any position, gun down at their side, gun in waistband, gun in center console, gun in pocket, etc. To put that into perspective, your average eye blink takes 1/3 (.33) seconds. All else being equal, waiting until a suspect points a firearm at you or one of your partners is poor tactics/training and officer safety.
A couple of examples (of MANY):
real Walther
pellet Walther
real Beretta
pellet Beretta
And Fwiw, I have a Walther CP99 pellet gun – it’s built solidly and has good heft to it. In the heat of the moment, I most likely wouldn’t be able to tell if it were real after taking it away from someone…
Re: Weapons Training
Interesting notes Don. Thanks for sharing. I didn’t know exactly what LEO protocol was in such situations.
Re: Weapons Training
quote KMyoshi:Interesting notes Don. Thanks for sharing. I didn’t know exactly what LEO protocol was in such situations.There really isn’t any exact protocol – no cookie cutter procedure(s) for any given type of situation. Our uses of force are basically in response to subject/suspect behavior, the totality of the circumstances, and our perceptions of everything that is happening. LE uses of force will vary greatly, from state to state, agency to agency, and even individual LEO to individual LEO.
A core principle, however, remains the same: hesitation to use force and/or using too little force can get you or your partners seriously hurt and/or killed. Hesitation is especially bad in situations involving firearms where the window of opportunities are generally smaller and options more limited.
Three tragic examples of hesitation to use force that I use in lectures (worth googling/youtubing) – the murders of Kyle Dinkheller in GA and Randy Vetter in TX and the shooting of Sgt James Keleman in Conroe TX. To see how quickly someone can get a firearm into play – a completely hidden firearm – you can youtube “sparrow hitman” or “teddy medina”. Also, the Force Science Research Center has done some outstanding studies in movement and time factors (both suspect and LEO).
Re: Weapons Training
quote Don:Also, FWIW, LEOs do NOT have to wait until a firearm is pointed at them before they can righteously shoot. JFYI, if a suspect has his/her hand already gripping a gun, they can EASILY point and get a shot off in LESS THAN 1/4 (.25) seconds – and that’s from just about any position, gun down at their side, gun in waistband, gun in center console, gun in pocket, etc. To put that into perspective, your average eye blink takes 1/3 (.33) seconds. All else being equal, waiting until a suspect points a firearm at you or one of your partners is poor tactics/training and officer safety.AMEN!!!!thumbsup
Re: Weapons Training
Someone in training once called it striking with a “sharp rock” ever since then I think about stabbing the attacker with the barrel pointed at them right after the disarm and THEN I tap rack while making space and checking my surroundings. Airsoft, squirt gun doesn’t mater it’s a weapon of opportunity I get to smash them in the face with.
But hey, thats just me I could be wrong.
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