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I wrap hands and wrists almost every class.
Years of rockclimbing have done a number on my wrists and hands, and training full force has a habit of causing me to roll my wrists, and could pootentially lead to injury. I have two choices…train less than full force, or wrap. I choose to wrap. I spent a number of years trying to strengthn them to the point where this is not neccesary, but consultations with orthopedists and athletes that I trust have led me to believe that my wrists will likely never be the same. It is not clear what caused the condition, but it is undeniably there.
In a street fight, of course, I would hit full strength. The chances of an injury are stil proportionatley slim, and a hurt wrist is a small price to pay for emerging safe from a street confrontation.Use wrist wraps for all training. Mostly for support of my wrist not to protect my knuckles. By wrapping my wrist is helps to keep it in the proper position when throwing a punch which will hopefully translate to memory if I ever get in a situation outside of training.
If you use wraps or gloves do your tendons and bones become use to having support? I do use gloves when on the heavy bag, but I try not to use anything as much as possible. I have heard your bones will adapt to take the beating. I can tell the difference from when I first started. At first i would have to wear gloves alot because my hands would get sore or i would roll my wrist, but now I rarely use them. any opinions on this?
I personally like gloves better and wear them most of time. I have broken/cracked several fingers as well as hand. About half of those injuries were from solo training. I just try to not to hit anything anymore without some sort of protection because the recovery time is just a pain. Not fun to have to lay off 4 weeks because I did not take the 1 minute to properly protect my hands. I like the wraps, but they work their way loose about halfway through class and just end up being more aggravating than gloves.
I advise all my students to wrap up…or at least have some support for your wrist especially if you hitting a heavy bag or Thai pads. I know toooo many people with weak/poor wrist due to \”I’m going to toughen up my fist\” syndrom.
Me including…I wish i would have never thought that not wrapping would make me/my hands stronger and look tougher because i’m paying for it now. I HAVE to wrap my wrist now with tape before any training because it can’t handle any pressure.
I didn’t like the wraps during class.
I use fingerless gloves (SUG brand) with the KwikPull finger tabs for taking them off easy ( http://www.wellslamont.com/styledetail.tpl?style=836 ) as a liner for 4 ounce grappling gloves with built-in wrist wrap. The wrist wrap doesn’t do much imo, but the SUG liners I can wash.
My wrists have always been prone to injury too, but haven’t given me a problem since I started krav. Hooks and uppercuts still cause concern with rolling my wrists, but I see that as I’m not doing something right. So I slow down a bit and work on form. Jabs and right cross I’m full force. I’m doing heavy bag and weightlifting, maybe the combination is helping.
Going to start implementing some of these into the mix too. Most of them I can do at work during lunch so it won’t cut into other workouts.
http://www.rosstraining.com/articles/trainingthehands.htmlIf you’re talking sparring, then yes, gloves and maybe wraps. But, the one thing about krav I fail to understand is the relentless emphasis on using wraps, gloves, and especially, striking with the closed fist.
If your wrapping up and gloving up before training, you’re not conditioning your bare hand to land a solid punch without injury. And really, why bother with all that anyways when a palm-heel strike is more effective in stopping power (wider surface area), allows you to grab and rip at your opponent with minimal transition from smacking them, and is so much safer to your hand than a fist strike.
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quote \”G.V.\:If your wrapping up and gloving up before training, you’re not conditioning your bare hand to land a solid punch without injury.I’ll disagree with that. Landing a solid punch comes from practicing good form; conditioning comes from impact to the hand repeatedly (impact and resistance training increases bone density). Doesn’t matter if you’re hitting a padded punch mit, padded heavy bag, or wearing gloves that happen to have padding. The grappling gloves or wraps I see in class allow folks to train against the tombstone pads/heavybags for long periods without making the pads a biohazard from all the blood. It’s skin vs leather (or vinyl), wrap or glove up. In a real fight, hopefully it will be knuckles vs face area (jaw, nose, eye, throat etc).
I’ll agree I wish they trained more open hand strikes. I wouldn’t hesitate to use a closed fist in a fight, but I see some people come in class who would probably do better with palm heel than knuckles. I trained today with a woman who wouldn’t make a proper fist because her nails were too long. So she’ll just learn the wrong way.
One of the many things that was ingrained in us repeatedly during phase was ìSafety in Trainingî
I was lucky enough to be gifted with big bones so I donít suffer ñ as much ñ from weak wrists but that doesnít mean Iím looking to break or strain anything either.
Recently because of my shoulder injury I find that if I donít wrap or at least tape my wrists I will tend not to go as hard. When I do wrap, mentally I go all out but by not wrapping it reminds me Iím injured.
And just as a point of clarification I hate wraps always have, I find it difficult to fit my large hands into focus mits with them on, but I understand their purpose and as I said one should always consider safety in training a priority.
Sean
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quote \”G.V.\:If you’re talking sparring, then yes, gloves and maybe wraps. But, the one thing about krav I fail to understand is the relentless emphasis on using wraps, gloves, and especially, striking with the closed fist.If your wrapping up and gloving up before training, you’re not conditioning your bare hand to land a solid punch without injury. And really, why bother with all that anyways when a palm-heel strike is more effective in stopping power (wider surface area), allows you to grab and rip at your opponent with minimal transition from smacking them, and is so much safer to your hand than a fist strike.
I think your also assuming that level 1 students from the start will all \”land a solid punch without injury\”….
To me thats like saying you don’t need to wear a seat belt because we all know how to drive correctly. mistakes happen, people get tired, partners might not hold the pad correctly…etc.
like Sean stated…Safety in Training! What good does a strong right punch do out on the street when you broke it in training.
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quote \”vwr32\:I’ll disagree with that.Yeh, well, I’ll disagree with you disagreeing. I’ll bet you dollars to donuts that Mike Tyson could throw a cleaner punch than you can, dude…and yet, there he was with a busted hand after a street fight. He’s far from the only professional boxer out there that had that happen to him. I don’t care how well that glove molds to your hand…the reach is different, the angle of contact is different, and finally, the weak point is different from an ungloved fist. You’ll fight how you train, ergo, you’ll throw an ungloved punch the way you’ve been training to throw a gloved one, and very possibly you’ll find your hand a useless mess after making contact with your opponent’s skull. Most of us took krav to fend off an attack when we’re chosen as victims (as opposed to a bullshit ego match in a bar or whatnot). It’s a bad moment to test whether your primary defense weapon is up to the challange or not, no?
\”Recently because of my shoulder injury I find that if I donít wrap or at least tape my wrists I will tend not to go as hard. When I do wrap, mentally I go all out but by not wrapping it reminds me Iím injured.\”
That’s my point exactly. Safety first, yes…I’m down with that concept. But, I’m way against ingraining a false sense of security, when the goal is to acheive some proficiency in *realistic* self-defense. Palm-heel strikes, people…it’s a better tool.
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quote \”G.V.\:quote \”vwr32\:I’ll disagree with that.Yeh, well, I’ll disagree with you disagreeing. I’ll bet you dollars to donuts that Mike Tyson could throw a cleaner punch than you can, dude…and yet, there he was with a busted hand after a street fight.
Ok, I’ll see your disagreement and disagree with your disagreeing with my disagreement. 😛
I’m sure tyson trains to throw full force at his opponent’s head no matter what the final target is… jaw, nose, skull. The gloves protect his hands. At no time have I ever heard an instructor tell people they should target someone’s skull with their fist. In fact, if their face is obstructed from a strike, I believe other attacks would be better suited: Head down? Knee strike maybe. Opponent too close for effective right cross? Tyson might go straight for the right hook to the head… dangerous shot for a bare fist, I wonder if that’s what he used. I’d be more inclined to simply fire off an elbow to their face.
Tyson’s training differs slightly from ours. I’d like to believe the hype behind ours having been effectively tested in the streets of Israel/Palestine and isn’t leaving behind a wake of crippled, broke-handed Israeli soldiers after every instance of hand to hand combat. A closed fist isn’t always the best tool, and that’s why we incorporate so many different means of striking.
Like I said before, I’d love to see some open handed strikes done in class. We’re in agreement on that part. Tyson would have been fine had he resorted to knees and elbows if his opponent’s face was obscured. Too bad he doesn’t train for street fighting like we do.
We’ll be ok even if we train with gloves/wraps while punching the pads and heavy bags. If not, i’m sure the NTC will adapt and Israel will survive. 😀
GUYS…….
whether or not you train WITH or WITHOUT wraps or gloves, if you punch a guy in the skull hard enough, most likely your hand will brake. If you hit something in a bad angle, you’ll roll/hurt your wrist…
The point is that people should do the safer thing in training so that they minimize the chance of injury.
Which was exactly my point thanks Mr Lee for reiterating it. Although I dislike wearing handwraps and wonít wear them if Iím doing technique when hitting a bag/focus mits I think they are a vital safety tool. If I know Iím going to do an intensive work out like Mr Leeís MT class I actually wrap AND tape my wraps.
My knuckles are torn up from altercations with peoples teeth Iíve had broken knuckles and fingers from real life situations. I think itís foolish to harm yourself while training when it can be easily avoided.
And James (mr lee) is the one who actually started me taping my wrists after he hurt his.
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