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quote \”Krav_4_Life\:-Being choked with a wire (both with and without space)
Technique could include rope/towel etc from behind. For purposes of this discussion itís not a piano wire and itís not twisted behind your neck
NOT twisted behind your neck?? Where’s the fun in that? Is that a realistic attack? I would think that, in order to make this choke powerful, you would HAVE to twist the rope/wire. Otherwise, you could just pull a person off balance, but not really choke him, right?
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GiantkillerRe:
quote \”Giant Killer\:NOT twisted behind your neck?? Where’s the fun in that? Is that a realistic attack? I would think that, in order to make this choke powerful, you would HAVE to twist the rope/wire. Otherwise, you could just pull a person off balance, but not really choke him, right?_________________
GiantkillerUncrossed is a more common way of being chocked, but crossed is far more efficient, and what someone who knew what they were doing would do. It is more difficult to twist the rope behind unless the victim is unconscious or near unconsciousness, and the attacker then crosses the rope to ensure a quick death. Strangulation with the rope uncrossed is more than possible when the attacker puts pressure against your back by pulling you against his body, by placing the elbows on your back, or putting a knee against your back. Iím sure there are other ways. Try them all out, and you will see how easy it is to strangle someone with the rope uncrossed.
The defense for the rope crossed is the same as uncrossed. Just turn around and attack. You get some very minor rope burn on your neck, but itís no big deal in practice, and obviously better than death in a real situation.
Re: Being choked with a wire (both with and without space)
quote \”CJs Dad\:quote \”Krav_4_Life\:-Being choked with a wire (both with and without space)Technique could include rope/towel etc from behind. For purposes of this discussion itís not a piano wire and itís not twisted behind your neck
quote \”Strictly Street\:For strangulation from behind, I think you will find this is the best defense: turn around as quickly as possible to face your opponent. Instinctively when being chocked, your hands will go up to your throat, but if they are really trying hard, or crossing the cord/wire in the back it won’t be easy to create space. Turning around quickly will completely throw the attacker off guard as they won’t be expecting it, and give you the element of surprise. When you are facing them, defending yourself will be much easier than trying with your back to them. As well, their hands are occupied so they are open to any attack. As soon as you start fighting back, they will be forced to let go of the cord/wire/stick or whatever. Turning around even while be strangled HARD is surprisingly easy. Try it out and see how it works. Even if your partner knows what you are about to do, and has their knee in your back, or are braced to try and stop you it still works! The rope burn isn’t that bad either. It they are using some really thin wire that is cutting into you I guess you are screwed anyway. This is actually a really common attack and well worth being able to defend against. Especially since the defense is so simple and effective. Practice and see.I simply reposted what I already said with some clarification. There are two schools of thought that can be used here: removing the threat before counter-attacking, or counter-attacking first to make it easier to then remove the threat. For rope strangulation, if you can remove the threat first, then great, but it is EXTREMELY difficult to do. It would require an immense amount of strength if trying to create space between the rope and the neck (for most people, I suspect this is impossible), and plucking would be difficult to do, if not impossible depending on where the hands are located relative to your neck. Also, if the attacker sees you going for his hands, he can brace himself to stop you from doing it. Remember, if someone is strangling you, their intent is to kill you, and they will do whatever they must to succeed. Any sign they get of you trying to stop them, they will attempt to counter-act. You must remove any chance they might have to counter whatever you try to do to them.
The method of turning around immediately allows you to counter-attack quickly and efficiently, forcing the attacker to stop strangling. He cannot stop you from turning around (try it at home) without stopping the strangulation.
You must stop the strangulation as quickly as possible because unconsciousness can occur in 5-15 seconds, and death from strangulation can occur in as little as 11.5 seconds depending on how it is done and death can even occur after the attack stopped due to internal damage. http://www.ncdistrictattorney.org/traininghandout/4%20DV%20Strangulation%20PPT.pdf
So then, if turning relieves the pressure, I’m actually addressing the danger first (with the turn) and so it would still be in line with KM defenses. I haven’t tried it yet, but it certainly sounds like a plausible defense. Could a possible pluck facilitate the turning motion, or would it just get in the way? Also, would this work against a wire? It seems that a wire would cut into your neck if you tried to turn, especially if the wire is crossed and it could cause serious injury (cut into the carotid artery for example).
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GiantkillerRe:
quote \”Giant Killer\:Could a possible pluck facilitate the turning motion, or would it just get in the way? Also, would this work against a wire? It seems that a wire would cut into your neck if you tried to turn, especially if the wire is crossed and it could cause serious injury (cut into the carotid artery for example)._________________
GiantkillerIf the attacker’s hands are within reach a pluck wouldn’t hurt. One way or the other if you are being chocked and not expecting it, your hands are going up to your throat, it is a natural reaction. Training yourself to instictivly pluck beats doing almost anything else with them. And, having your hands up when you turn around makes it faster to counter, which at that range in undoubtatbly an eye gouge. You know the attcker is open for it, his hands are occupyed with the rope/wire.
As for the wire causing injury, you are right, it could. But if you are being chocked, especially with a wire cutting skin, you are dead if you don’t try something. It can’t get worse than it already is. Try grabbing his nuts or head butting him is he is the right size and in the right position. The point is, do not fixate on one defence. Be ready to quickly try something else when what you are doing, or plan to do isn’t working. Attacks are dynamic, and therefore defences need to also.
Are there any wires that are so thin and sharp that they are actually designed to cut deep into your neck during such a choke? There’s a lot of soft tissue there, might not take much to cause some serious injury.
I got to try the turning thing with and without pluck, sounds like it may be a good option.
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GiantkillerAs I mentioned in the other thread:
As I learned it, you want to try to get space before being choked …
Imagine the scenario – You could be alone on the street, or in the middle of the SHTF – Either way; all of a sudden something comes over your head and toward your neck. Your instinct is to put your hands to your neck, so as with all KM techniques, you go with that. The hope, scratch that – Hope is not an effective tactic – The proper execution of this technique allows you to get an arm, hand, even a finger in between the implement and your neck, allowing for space to breathe. Simultaneously, you’re turning into the attacker and counterattacking … It’s not one of the easier techniques I’ve learned, but follows the principles of KM precisely, so to describe it makes it sound simple.
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quote \”Strictly Street\:quote \”Giant Killer\:Could a possible pluck facilitate the turning motion, or would it just get in the way? Also, would this work against a wire? It seems that a wire would cut into your neck if you tried to turn, especially if the wire is crossed and it could cause serious injury (cut into the carotid artery for example)._________________
GiantkillerIf the attacker’s hands are within reach a pluck wouldn’t hurt.
Disagree … If the wire is in fact crossed behind your neck, it could cause more damage and / or tighten the choke. The pluck is not only un-necessary, but IMO dangerous.
$0.02 more
Not sure about the wire, but for a rope, would a pluck maybe loosen the rope a little bit (or get the attacker a bit off balance), facilitating the turn. Not sure, something to try out.
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GiantkillerIn reality, the liklihood for any of us being attacked with a piano wire, or even a rope seem pretty minimal, unless you have certain \”associates\” in the \”construction\” business. 😉 How many of us are likely to become the target of a hit?
More possible, you’re fighting for your life and the attacker grabs something; a belt, an extension or power cord, etc …
Regardless, IMO ditch the pluck. There are too many variables. Length of implement (which effects location of attackers hands), hand position etc … If you’re being choked by hands, you know where they are – If not, you’re taking a chance when precious seconds count. Maintain your airway (get something between your neck and the implememnt) & turn and fight!
I think such an attack is possible. Quiet way to kill somebody. At least I’ve seen it in Hitchcock movies… 🙂 We may be working on this next week, can’t wait… 😀
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GiantkillerRe:
quote \”Giant Killer\:Well? Can we work on this today? 😀_________________
GiantkillerSure.. except I’m going to be at Sherman Oaks (im kidding!!)
Maybe I should drive over the hill? I’d love to see this.
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