- This topic has 33 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 18 years, 4 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
I seem to recall reading about something called Retzev in regards to Krav somewhere. Basically, retzev means \”continuous motion\” in Hebrew, and is the foundation of Krav Maga.
Can anyone verify this or expand on it? Is it indeed called \”retzev\”? Is that how you spell it? Is it pronounced just as it is spelled (ret-zev)?
How can one best practice this philosophy of continuous motion in Krav? I know that for me, personally, when practicing a self-defense move in Krav, like choke from front, or headlock defenses, bearhug defenses, whatever, my instructor always says I need to proceed the defense with more attacks & more aggression. I am great at addressing the immediate threat, getting myself out of the choke or headlock or whatever it may be, but then I guess I don’t follow-through with enough attacks, i.e. coninuous motion or retzev.
Any thoughts/insights into retzev?
It can be hard in class, because the \”attacker\” is instantly neutralised, they don’t keep coming after you after you’ve addressed the initial attack. But it’s good to practise keeping up the attack, one of my instructors has a very fluid way of doing this, like figure-eights with knees and elbows, but each one has their own way, some are more straightfoward with punches, etc. Find something that you feel comfortable doing continuously, then practise it mentally, and in the mirror alone…it’ll get easier to do in class. And even though it’s hard in class, and we think in real life we’d respond in kind to a continued attack, we want to train to attack back after the initial agression instead of waiting for the next move.
Oh, and I love talk about theory…if you’re getting lots of theory in your classes, please post more 😀
\”my instructor always says I need to proceed the defense with more attacks\”
I had a similar statement made to me at my first class. Basically, I was addressing the immediate threat, throwing one or two shots, then pushing the attacker away. The alternative to this was break the choke, two or three groin shots, a punch or two, then two or three knees, THEN throw the attacker away. I just had to low down for a second and realize I was rushing through the scenario. That fixed the problem for me.
Frankly, it’s not a mystery and it doesn’t need a special word. The idea is just to make continuous counterattacks until the threat is neutralized. KM doesn’t use pre-determined counterattacks, we teach to be aggressive and continue until the threat is gone. Eventually, you should be doing drills in class where you are forced to recognize different openings and continously attack new openings as the attacker reacts to your strikes and movements.
At the same time, you cannot develop tunnel vision. You need to be aware of your environment and you need to be able to assess the threat (i.e., if it’s no longer a threat, don’t waste your energy there). This is particular important for law enforcement, but it has applications for civilians, too.
shadowboxing is the key..but instaed of combos of 3-4 like most boxers do..start to think in combos of 6-12…..slowly with forward movement and use all strikes..hands..elbows…knees etc.Then start to increase the speed.
The IKMA and its instructors place a lot of emphasis on this concept and you can see it in the way they move.It also comes in to play with their offensive knife work.Re:
quote \”tough girl\:It can be hard in class, because the \”attacker\” is instantly neutralised, they don’t keep coming after you after you’ve addressed the initial attack.It’s also a good idea to add drills in class where the attacker is NOT instantly neutralized and DOES keep comming at you. Krav Maga IS awsome, but nothing goes the way it should in a violent confrontation. After the initial self defense technique that deals with the threat, have the attacker react in different ways; run away, turn thier back, react to strikes, attack again, fall, etc. This will keep you on your toes and ensure that you are not just going ‘automatic’ with your counters.
A few things that really helped me.
1) Once we had learned the basic strikes and blocks, the instructor encouraged us to do what he called PKE’s. It stands for Punches, Knees, Elbows. Essentially the idea was to begin with the most comfortable offense. Next, you decide on the followup strike based on your own body position, strengths and instincts. This should develop into a continuous flow that is natural to your body. In Kali we have a similar concept called carrenza. Everyone’s carrenza is different but it is the same idea. You strike with the stick you favor then based on the position at the end of the flow you strike with the second stick etc.
2) Learn anatomy. You’ll be able to identify openings and create openings by targeting your strikes to vital points. With practice you can lead your opponent into vulnerable positions with targeted strikes.
3) When you are fighting, plan your strategy around your whole body. There’s always a possibility that your opponent might be trained as well. He may block and grapple. In such a case you’ll want to use the rest of your arsenal to continue the attack while one of your limbs is immobilized. I surprised my Kali instructor recently during a sparring session. He was demonstrating rope fighting against a knife. I was armed with the knife. When I attacked he was successful in trapping my arm and immobilizing it. I simply transferred the knife from my right hand to my left and cut the rope. Both his hands were occupied with the two ends of the rope, he realized that in a real fight, I could easily have slit his wrists instead of the rope. Chalk one up for Krav mental preparedness.
Looks like John deleted my post from 24 hours ago.
Why have a forum open to the public if you don’t won’t outsiders to comment?
By the way, it is practicing retzef (playfighting) with BOTH attacker and defender in constant combat motion.
\”Why have a forum open to the public if you don’t won’t outsiders to comment?\”
I’m sorry, that’s a silly statement. Its open to the public, but it is controlled by a private entity. If he wanted to put up pro islamic fundamentalism info, he could. None of us have first amendment rights on this forum, except at their descretion.Re:
quote \”Andre\:\”I’m sorry, that’s a silly statement. Its open to the public, but it is controlled by a private entity. If he wanted to put up pro islamic fundamentalism info, he could. None of us have first amendment rights on this forum, except at their descretion.Andre- Good Point, and I respect your reply.
However, In my deleted post i was merely trying to explain the concept of retzef as well as mista-krav (playfighting). Although krav has its origins with IMI and a few others there are different schools of thought when it comes to training. I am not saying anyone is right or anyone is wrong. I trained with Krav Magen in November and I learned alot. I went to some seminars with Darren and Amir etc etc and I learned alot. The way Haim Gidon, David Kahn and the IKMA teach retzef is something that all of krav can benefit by. [/i]
Its obvious that you only have the agenda of bringing up politics, or you would have left it at that. Once again, they have autonomy, it doesn’t matter what you feel like talking about. And I’ll leave it at that.
Re:
quote \”Andre\:Its obvious that you only have the agenda of bringing up politics, or you would have left it at that. Once again, they have autonomy, it doesn’t matter what you feel like talking about. And I’ll leave it at that.No agenda. all i’m saying is we can all learn from each other. Maybe you are reading too much into what I say.
If I had something political to say I would say it.
Re:
quote \”usnavy_233\:\” Basically, I was addressing the immediate threat, throwing one or two shots, then pushing the attacker away.As an instructor its a pet peeve of mine when my students to one or two strikes, and then a big heave-ho push against their attacker. It uses a lot of your (the defender’s) energy, and doesn’t do too much. Also, a push/shove is, by nature, a strength move. That is, it won’t work against someone bigger, stronger than you and even if it does, it doesn’t really help to prevent them from attacking you again.
Being preferential to kicks, I love the defensive front kick. But any of the strikes, if done aggressively, will create room to move.
The situation will dictate your response.
Why \”stay and fight\” if I’m ten feet from being inside a grocery store? Maybe I’m six feet from a steel pipe. If I can push someone into a car after sending a few combatives and run back in, that’s what I’ll do.
BTW, a push is not really any different than a punch, as they relate to attributes, if both are delivered in the same manner. Also, if you understand your environment and some basic principles, the push can be just the thing (whether I’m pushing to move them or to aid in moving me) to create separation. Honestly, I’d rather push after sending a few combatives than compromise my base by more than 50% by doing a defensive front kick.
It’s all about context. When you start speaking in absolutes, you’re doing yourself and your students a disservice. Just my opinion.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
