Different Dans in Krav maga

[lions2011]

Just curious but how does a Black Belt become a Second DAn. Do they have to learn brand new moves or just more proficient on the moves they know. Does each DAn have new moves??

I will never probably get past Green level so I will never know.

I never understood the different degrees of Black

[kevinmack]

Re: Different Dans in Krav maga

only Dan 1 and Dan 2 have techniques in the original curriculum.

[donjon]

Re: Different Dans in Krav maga

i am not getting the point of this post

[davidkahn]

Re: Different Dans in Krav maga

Hi Everyone,

Perhaps, I can shed some light on this subject as a number of people have contacted me privately regarding the IKMA (Gidon System)’s blackbelt requirements. Some background might help. In 1995, Imi entrusted Grandmaster Haim Gidon with overseeing black belt examinations. The IKMA usually requires a minimum of ten concentrated years of study or more to test for a 1st dan (blackbelt). (Haim Zut’s organization probably requires the same learning curve.) All blackbelt exams must be taken in Israel. Three senior blackbelts (3rd dan or higher) must administer the test for 1st dan.

I recently had the opportunity to discuss with Grandmaster Gidon how blackbelt tests have changed since Imi first instituted the belt system. Currently, and, as the system continues to evolve under Grandmaster Gidon, blackbelt examinations involve more material than they did in the 1980’s and 1990’s. The knowledge base is also probed more intensely. Retzev is also used against retzev — hand-to-hand combat at the highest levels. Each successive dan (1st-3rd) is usually separated by five years of additional learning/training and, usually, teaching experience. Six to seven years of additional experience is required to test for 4th dan.

To provide an idea of the depth of knowledge and required experience tested, the IKMA’s current curriculum for 1st dan is seven (single spaced) pages of techniques including 47 topics. Within these topics, there are 114 techniques and variations. For 2nd dan, the curriculum is nine (single spaced) pages and 52 topics. Within these topics are 217 techniques and variations. I’ll note that stick vs. stick, knife vs. knife, stick vs. knife include Imi’s original defenses along with additional defenses against professionally trained stick and knife fighters. There also specific cold weapon techniques to defend agains takedown/groundfighting experts. A minimum of three examiners including a 4th dan and at least two 5th dans (or higher) must be present for a 2nd dan examination.

For 3rd dan, the curriculum is another seven (single spaced) pages with 15 topics and 57 techinques and variations. I’ll mention just a few 3rd dan topics including lethal force applications (military/security establishment), defenses against military/lethal force applications, advanced law enforcement team work, VIP protection, defending against animal attacks, advanced vehicular confrontation scenarios, and room entry and clearing. For 3rd dan, there must be at least three 5th dan examiners.

For 4th dan, the curriculum focuses on advanced military and security applications such as urban warfare and fighting in and under water. For 5th dan, the highest level specific government/security applications are taught. Grandmaster Gidon grants 4th dan and higher directly overseeing the examination. Teaching development is also emphasized such as running instructor courses and testing 2nd and 3rd blackbelt dans. Notably, 4th and 5th dans in the IKMA (Gidon System) are based on skill, technique, and knowledge — capabilities within the system — not “political patronage.”

[lions2011]

Re: Different Dans in Krav maga

WOW..

and you know the techniques for black dans are super complex and hard.
Glad I will never get that far because I would never absorb it.

I will be a green belt by September for sure which is my ultimate goal in krav maga.

I will leave the brown and black stuff for the real krav experts which is not me.

[southofheaven]

Re: Different Dans in Krav maga

@davidkahn: Wooow… that is just an incredible amount of stuff to master for the dan tests! When reading it, I can not help thinking of those that say less is more in this matter; this many techniques are too many to handle and the risk of mind-jam in a real incident and so on… Personally, I am a novis and I do not know. I know all the traditional krav maga schools have similar stuff, so I am not trying to bash any specific style. Just curious. How do you think about these things?

[davidkahn]

Re: Different Dans in Krav maga

Hi,

Indeed, the maxim “less is more” is absolutely true in a self-defense situation, especially, when caught unprepared or in the “negative five” position. In reality, one needs to know just a few core techniques very well along with the the capability to execute these defensive movements instinctively and seamlessly while adapting to the threat.

I am a proponent of doing a few things very well. Israeli krav maga is meant to be simple; instinctive gross motor movements will carry the day. However, my point from the IKMA perspective is that a blackbelt represents the beginning of true mastery of the system starting with a flawless knowledge of the basic combatives/defensive tactics through the expert level. The IKMA higher blackbelt ranks denote many hard-fought/earned years of training. Notably, a decade or more of training and organizational devotion do not by default earn a blackbelt.

Most important, at the highest levels of krav maga one must possess a hand-to-hand combat ability; not just self-defense reactions. Controlled aggression is a prerequisite, but, one needs to be skilled in every aspect of a fight including opening recognition and timing. In short, an advanced krav maga belt, particularly at the blackbelt level, must be able to defend against any kind of attack, especially, against a professionally trained person from another fighting system.

Probably the easiest method to compare/judge for oneself is to examine the different krav organization’s rankings/abilities by comparing their respective blackbelts on Youtube. I suggest anyone interested should compare the main frontline organizations IKMA, KMF, KMWE, KMG, Krav Maga Alliance etc., especially, at the 4th dan level and higher. You will see some differences.

Best,

David Kahn

[mike-man]

Re: Different Dans in Krav maga

quote davidkahn:

defending against animal attacks…

My wife has been dying to know exactly how animal attack defense
lessons are taught – with real animals? And if so, how?

Just very, very curious, thanks :):

Regards,

Mike

[davidkahn]

Re: Different Dans in Krav maga

Trained attack dogs.

[lions2011]

Re: Different Dans in Krav maga

The only chance against an animal like a dog is too hammer fist his nose. A Dog’s nose is extremely sensitive.
I guess a basic eye gouge using your thumb in raking motion would work.

You have to go for a dog’s nose or eyes if you have any chance.

[sicpuppy]

Re: Different Dans in Krav maga

quote lions2011:

The only chance against an animal like a dog is too hammer fist his nose. A Dog’s nose is extremely sensitive.
I guess a basic eye gouge using your thumb in raking motion would work.

You have to go for a dog’s nose or eyes if you have any chance.

Or a good kick to the ribs can be very effective (from experience).

[jewishfitness1976]

Re: Different Dans in Krav maga

I think it is no different than jiu jitsu & judo and karate at the black belt levels as there is a lot to learn, even so more with krav maga because this is a martial art based on medical & scientific knowledge as well the art of krav maga is constantly being tested in real world situations.

To give you an idea of the medical & scientific achievements of the boxing world here in the U.S.A. then you get a glimpse of what being a responsible black belt is all about.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/outdoors/sports/physics/boxing-knockout-sports-science

[jewishfitness1976]

Re: Different Dans in Krav maga

This one is from National Geographic, just to give an idea of what goes on through the scientific field of martial arts in achieving a black belt.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/08/060814-fight-science.html

[jewishfitness1976]

Re: Different Dans in Krav maga

This one is from the U.S. Military side of things …

http://www.fighttimes.com/magazine/magazine.asp?article=645

I have given three different examples and that should give you guys an idea of how krav maga was delevoped over the course of many years.

The founder of Krav Maga took the best from each fighting art, jiu jitsu & judo and karate and worked in some things from the medical & scientific field into what is now called Krav Maga.

[jewishfitness1976]

Re: Different Dans in Krav maga

I think different branches of Krav Maga studies what they study and reports back to Israel’s medical and scientific martial art team at the Wingate Institiute in Netanya, Israel.

http://www.jewishsports.net/wingate_institute.htm

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