Drinking & Krav

[nickolas-cook]

Re: Drinking & Krav

Yeah, I seriously avoid drinking, except in the safety and comfort of my own home. Was never much for drinking anyway. I’ve seen too many people do really stupid, dangerous, irresponsible, and cruel, thougtless crap while they’re intoxicated. Drinking is fine, but most people don’t know when to stop drinking. But that’s not why I don’t drink while I’m out. I have a responsiblity to make sure I never get in a situation where my thinking isn’t as clear as it should be. The bottom line is drinking does breakdown your natural inhibitions. I don’t ever want to be in a situation where the drinking is a factor for whether I should have acted or not acted.
Silly? Overboard?
Maybe. Just the way I look at it, man.

[fiend]

Re: Drinking & Krav

Thanks for the input,

Zen: I wasn’t saying you did have to be a drunk (or even drink), I was making the point that if drunk people are what cause problems, there are always drunk people around. Therefore, bars are no less unsafe than, say, football games.

Grappler: I agree with what you’re saying about assessing the situation, and I think that’s really what I’m concluding here. It’s all relative.

We all have our own “comfort zone” for safety. The answer is not “stop going to bars” or “stop drinking in public”, although it may be for some. It’s what makes you feel safe enough for you.

[Anonymous]

Re: Drinking & Krav > drink at home & spar in deep water

quote Cearball:

Britain has a heavy drinking culture of which i am a keen follower :beer:.
…

All responses welcome, unless its the obvious one of stop drinking :):

So, you want to drink and be safe? Drink at home (hopefully not a stupid place) with your (hopefully not stupid) friends and you can relax and do silly (but hopefully not stupid) things.

Specifically about technique, one of the tricky things about being intoxicated is maintaining your balance. You could try sparring while standing thigh-high in water (e.g. in a swimming pool or river or lake etc.) See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-cccTEO8r4 at 3:36 (starts at 2:32)

[cearball]

Re: Drinking & Krav > drink at home & spar in deep water

Thanks for the input guys.

I know its better to stay out of situations that could put u in danger so not going to bars & not getting drunk is good advice, but its also something i like to do so not doing it to simply stay safe to me is sorta defeating the purpose of y i started krav. I do krav so i can do the things i enjoy doing with that little extra piece of mind that if trouble does start i have a better chance of getting out of it.

Most of the trouble i have experienced has been late at night out on the town normally when i have had a few beers & normally coming from people in a similar state.

iv been in one or two scraps (wouldnt call them full on fights really), had a knife pulled on me, attempted muggings etc this has never happened in broad daylight walking down the street but on a nights out.
So would krav work for me in the situations i most need it, hence y i asked the drinking question.

Also could it work against u?
Wot i mean by this is could it give u a false sense of confidence (while under the influence) that could lead u to making a big mistake.

For instance while on holiday in Amsterdam my friend got a gun put into his mouth & his wallet taken after we had been out drinking in some clubs, he had got seperated from the group & attempted to walk back to the hostel. I dont know wot i would have done in this situation as i have never been in it but the more i thought about it the more i feel i would have tried a gun disarm (remember the confidence from having been drinking & knowing some krav) & probably have been shot.

Its a worrying thought.

[russell]

Re: Drinking & Krav

in my opinion one of the best things about krav is muscle memory approach, and the most important muscle we have is between our ears! krav teaches us not only what to do in a situation, but how to avoid it! alcohol clouds the judgement, the senses,slows reaction time and makes a lot of people think they are badder than everyone else(and makes ugly women pretty!, i never went to bed drunk with a ugly woman but i woke up hungover with a few!)

why put yourself in that kind of situation? anyone can have a few drinks(or a pint) but when you start to lose control of yourself, you lose control of the situation and at that point krav maga, tae kwon do, karate, judo or bjj wont do any good

russell

[emil]

Re: Drinking & Krav

We used to drill where the person defending was spun around until dizzy, then others would attack. Not as good as being drunk, but does simulate impairment.

[dkatman]

Re: Drinking & Krav

Great posts and great topic.

I think it says a lot of your training and mentality in applying your training and situational awareness in your realizing you might really be putting yourself out there.

Abstinence is not the same as control. You are not looking to stop going out and drinking and having fun.

I totally see your point. You train hard and you know what you can do sober. You are wondering if the confidence, along with extra strength liquid courage could cloud your judgement into thinking you can defend yourself when you have put your body into a state where you can’t.

I think for part of it, you know yourself better than we do. I don’t know your personality. Are you a happy drunk? Get angry? Like to brag about training? Now, other than that (cause I don’t think you describe yourself as someone who starts the trouble), there are things that just happen. People have already pointed out minimizing those chances with your environment. You will be slower. You will be sloppier. But I agree with Russell in regards to muscle memory. Your body and mind will trigger on a few things and attempt to go through the motions. Just how drunk and sloppy you are will DEFINITELY impact whether or not your arms even leave your sides.

And I think that is where your mindset and mentallity come in. I think the training could very well alter how you go out. I think you are questioning it here. I totally believe that some of the people altered their points of view where they don’t go out and get drunk anymore. That was the awareness they wanted. I think you might find yourself maybe cutting back by maybe just one or two drinks when you go out. You can still go out and have fun, but you will want to keep (or you won’t) that sense about yourself where you do have a measure of control and can fight your way out of a paper bag. I like to where flip flops whenever I am not working. I have specifically changed that to prefer wearing better shoes just in case anything were to happen. I just preferred being in shoes. This is still different than being drunk, but it is still an impairment, if I am not able to move the way I expect I will.

On the flip side, I still want to train without shoes and/or in flip flops more. But either way, I would still operate better in shoes.

I think it would be very dangerous to train drunk with a partner. But I think it would be neat for you to drink and do some bag work, videotape it, and compare it to some videotape of your bag work sober. At some point, if you have more control than any of us might think, it might not be quite as dangerous as I think for you to to do some light work while intoxicated, in the name of science of course. :):

Let me know how that works out,

Dave
:beer:

[ffdo1234]

Re: Drinking & Krav

OK

I am somewhat of a newbie again but have actually used KM drunk. It wasnít by choice; I do NOT fight unless my life or someone elseís is threatened. I let the really big drunk go that wanted to kick my A!@ because I didnít sing Bob Dillon correctly. (True story, I sang BD poorly, he wanted to kill me. I smiled and said no thank you.)

OK, here is the story. I am in the military and was deployed in a foreign country with a pretty good/bad organized crime influence. I had been drinking on base, but went downtown to pick up some custom embroidery work. I stopped by the local bar where the bartender had been teaching me the local language. Three guys walked in and it was OBVIOUS to anyone that watches HBO these guys were OC. (No that is not how I knew, but I knew.) The driver/enforcer/body guard just took a seat. The other two did their thing as the bar owner cowered. The First Shirt from the unit was in the bar and was hammered. He starts mouthing off at the driver, a really big dude with no sense of humor. Now, I am and have always been a peace maker. I have not been in a fight outside of training in 25 years. Here I am, watching the shirt face off with a guy I am pretty sure is OC. At the very least he is big and will kill the shirt. I step between them and talk to the chauffer who agrees to let me defuse the situation. I turn to the shirt, and he tells me to get out of his way. HE is gonna kick this guyís A@@! I wonít so he says he can ruin my career with a press of a button on his cell. (Too the Colonelís phoneÖ.) I told him he shouldnít but he stuck it in my stomach like a knife and pressed the buttonÖÖ..

Long story short, muscle memory did take over, a knife take-away works equally well on a cell phone. He did press the button before it fell to the ground, and I had some explaining to do to the bird the next day. He heard the whole thingÖ.. Luckily, I had three USAF Captís that saw the whole thing, walked me home, and talked to my CO and told him what really happened.

Anyway, the short answer is KM does work when you have had too much IF you have got to the point where the muscle memory takes over. I wish I was never in this situation, and may well take the advice of the other posters, (Never leave home drunkÖOr, if you are, head homeÖ)

Again, short answer behind a long story, DONíT put yourself in the situation, but KM does work drunk, but I truly believe you should NEVER try and test this theory

JC

[kravjeff]

Re: Drinking & Krav

quote Michael:

I follow the three stupid rule.

Don’t go stupid places
with stupid people
to do stupid things.

I don’t go to bars, and I don’t get drunk. Doing either is placing yourself into a situation where you are far more likely to get into trouble. Why up your odds?

+1 Once again common sense rules the day …

Have an aquaintance who was “wasted” standing outside of a bar recently after it closed (about 2am) Car rolls up, guy gets out and smashes his skull, totally unprovoked. Beat him down ’till the guy’s (drunk) friends “realized” what was going on. In the hospital, fractured skull – Won’t press charges ’cause his wife is pregnant and he’s scared …

How ’bout this? Don’t get drunk and fight.?.?.?

[kravjeff]

Re: Drinking & Krav

quote fiend:

So you guys seriously avoid bars and/or drinking on the fear that you might get in a fight? I don’t mean to troll here, just find it hard to believe. What do you do for fun at night? Even without bars, say sporting events, concerts, etc, there’s always drunk people around…

I don’t have to be one of ’em !!!

[cearball]

Re: Drinking & Krav

Dkatman your right in assuming that krav has effected my lifestyle, i have started to limit my alcohol intake more & to be honest am now far less inclined to get involved in fights than i was in the past & feel more aware of the dangers than i once was.

FFD01234 interesting story & i agree with your viewpoint “do NOT fight unless my life or someone elseís is threatened” & well done for stepping in & diffusing the situation hope the guy realised when he sobered up wot a favour u did him.

As a sidenote dont want this thread to turn into one on the moralitys of drinking, i respect everyones viewpoint & believe people should be allowed to do their own thing. This is a thread to do with kravs effectivness while intoxicated & peoples views/experiences of it.

[safetyal]

Re: Drinking & Krav

quote fiend:

So you guys seriously avoid bars and/or drinking on the fear that you might get in a fight? I don’t mean to troll here, just find it hard to believe. What do you do for fun at night? Even without bars, say sporting events, concerts, etc, there’s always drunk people around…

I can only speak for myself. I have small children. Therefore I have no life. Fun for me is getting the kids to bed early enough to watch some tv that doesn’t involve some aminated characters name I can’t pronounce.. rofl2

[jburtonpdx]

Re: Drinking & Krav

Wonder if the shirt realized you saved his life…

quote FFDO1234:

At the very least he is big and will kill the shirt. I step between them and talk to the chauffer who agrees to let me defuse the situation. I turn to the shirt, and he tells me to get out of his way. HE is gonna kick this guyís A@@!

[oldkravdude]

Re: Drinking & Krav

Okay, to answer the actual question that was asked. Not proud of this but four or five years ago myself and another Krav instructor were at a hotel for an official Krav function. One beer turned to eight and in the hall he decides to see if Krav actually works when drunk. I thought it sounded like a great idea. He swings at me, hits an atm machine and busts up his hand. I fall on the ground laughing and end up like a turtle on his back as I couldn’t get back up. Moral for me……don’t get drunk and think that you can defend yourself!

[kirsten]

Re: Drinking & Krav

Michael,
They do it so we will have calls for service and won’t have to sit in the patrol room on a report all night… Thank goodness for them! 🙂

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