Drinking & Krav

[newkravaddict]

Re: Drinking & Krav

quote DKatman:

Great posts and great topic.

I think it says a lot of your training and mentality in applying your training and situational awareness in your realizing you might really be putting yourself out there.

Abstinence is not the same as control. You are not looking to stop going out and drinking and having fun.

I totally see your point. You train hard and you know what you can do sober. You are wondering if the confidence, along with extra strength liquid courage could cloud your judgement into thinking you can defend yourself when you have put your body into a state where you can’t.

I think for part of it, you know yourself better than we do. I don’t know your personality. Are you a happy drunk? Get angry? Like to brag about training? Now, other than that (cause I don’t think you describe yourself as someone who starts the trouble), there are things that just happen. People have already pointed out minimizing those chances with your environment. You will be slower. You will be sloppier. But I agree with Russell in regards to muscle memory. Your body and mind will trigger on a few things and attempt to go through the motions. Just how drunk and sloppy you are will DEFINITELY impact whether or not your arms even leave your sides.

And I think that is where your mindset and mentallity come in. I think the training could very well alter how you go out. I think you are questioning it here. I totally believe that some of the people altered their points of view where they don’t go out and get drunk anymore. That was the awareness they wanted. I think you might find yourself maybe cutting back by maybe just one or two drinks when you go out. You can still go out and have fun, but you will want to keep (or you won’t) that sense about yourself where you do have a measure of control and can fight your way out of a paper bag. I like to where flip flops whenever I am not working. I have specifically changed that to prefer wearing better shoes just in case anything were to happen. I just preferred being in shoes. This is still different than being drunk, but it is still an impairment, if I am not able to move the way I expect I will.

On the flip side, I still want to train without shoes and/or in flip flops more. But either way, I would still operate better in shoes.

I think it would be very dangerous to train drunk with a partner. But I think it would be neat for you to drink and do some bag work, videotape it, and compare it to some videotape of your bag work sober. At some point, if you have more control than any of us might think, it might not be quite as dangerous as I think for you to to do some light work while intoxicated, in the name of science of course. :):

Let me know how that works out,

Dave
:beer:

Dave, I laughed at your post. Remember a few of those early saturday morning classes with me? My beer belches? That was pretty close to training drunk.

[thecrownsown]

Re: Drinking & Krav

I think it all comes down to common sense, and being aware of your environment. There’s no doubt when you consume alcohol (or other chemicals for that matter) it effects your brain function, and your physical ability. The best thing to do is just minimize the possibility of confrontation. The initial surge of adrenalin in a situation usually negates part of the alcohol, but I doubt you’d be in top condition.

My creed: Don’t get angry, walk/run away, read the situation and find the best way out without physical confrontation. And someone earlier said be aware of the environment. If it looks bad…don’t go strolling in.

I’ve never been in a full out fight and used to frequent the night clubs/bars 3-4 times a week! Incidents occur, but usually you can pick out the people “looking for trouble” fairly readily. If you project an air of superiority/tension/on guard/etc., it in turns provokes it in others. I don’t believe that you shouldn’t drink, just on the off chance you may be attacked. If you choose to live “on guard” thats fine, but what a way to live! 🙂 I like to go out and have fun. Most people do.
That being said, no one should be falling down drunk in the bar to complete drunkeness. here it’s against the law to be served like that. I guess if your going to get stupid drunk on your wedding/graduation/whatever night….do it in a safe place! 🙂

[cearball]

Re: Drinking & Krav

Thanks for the posts guys.
Okay had an experience last night.
My idiot mate started a fight in a club, he denies it & said it was the other guys but all i saw was him going to the ground on top of someone punching them in the face so at the moment i blaming him.

This resulted in 4 friends of the guy on the ground jumping on my mate. I rushed in & pulled them off & tried to calm things down but my mate just went for the original guy again & ended up in a headlock being pummeled. I broke them up & was trying to calm everyone down while keeping the 2 apart when one of the guys friends started swinging for the rafters at my mates head, i pushed him off & gave my mate a quick glance as he went to the floor by the time i looked back round the guy was right in front of me and started swinging, took about 3 shots to the side of the head before i got my guard up, took about another 3 before i reacted by stepping in close & grabbing him while chambering for a punch to the jaw/throat. a bouncer grabbed my arm before i hit him & escorted me out of a side door.

Now i do think alcohol certainly effected my speed reaction time etc but i feel that the krav training must of helped. I froze for about a fraction of a second when i got the first hits but i didnt panic. What went through my head at the time was more or less “your getting hit get your guard up”, “your still getting hit! Hit back!”
The first thing that came into my head was to grab him fire a few shots to the throat/jaw & follow with a knee to the groin, the bouncer inturrepted happily before i could do any of that.

In hindsight i think the best move would have been to step back & kick him squre in the groin but that didnt go through my head at the time.

Really annoyed with my mate at the moment. It ended with me, my mate & 1 other friend getting thrown out different exits, i met up with my one friend then he went inside to get someone else we were with who didnt get involved at all. While i circled the building to find the original mate who started it all my two other friends who werent really involved got jumped by the 5 guys from inside. However we were all alright after with only superficial bruises as far as i know, gonna check up on them later.

Sorry for all the “guys”, “mates” & “friends” but i hope its intelligible enough.

Btw when i stepped in & grabbed the guy it seemed to work quite well as he just froze like a rabbit in the headlights.

[mara-jade]

Re: Drinking & Krav

quote Kevin Mack:

In the US we have goggles that simulate the effects of intoxication. They are mainly used to show people what its like to drive drunk but I know of a few KM/martial arts schools that use them to simulate fighting drunk,disoriented,etc,etc.

We have those at my center too – have used them when being attacked by a knife or gun..OMG – talk about messed UP

[thecrownsown]

Re: Drinking & Krav

quote Cearball:

Thanks for the posts guys.
Okay had an experience last night.
My idiot mate started a fight in a club, he denies it & said it was the other guys but all i saw was him going to the ground on top of someone punching them in the face so at the moment i blaming him.

This resulted in 4 friends of the guy on the ground jumping on my mate. I rushed in & pulled them off & tried to calm things down but my mate just went for the original guy again & ended up in a headlock being pummeled. I broke them up & was trying to calm everyone down while keeping the 2 apart when one of the guys friends started swinging for the rafters at my mates head, i pushed him off & gave my mate a quick glance as he went to the floor by the time i looked back round the guy was right in front of me and started swinging, took about 3 shots to the side of the head before i got my guard up, took about another 3 before i reacted by stepping in close & grabbing him while chambering for a punch to the jaw/throat. a bouncer grabbed my arm before i hit him & escorted me out of a side door.

Now i do think alcohol certainly effected my speed reaction time etc but i feel that the krav training must of helped. I froze for about a fraction of a second when i got the first hits but i didnt panic. What went through my head at the time was more or less “your getting hit get your guard up”, “your still getting hit! Hit back!”
The first thing that came into my head was to grab him fire a few shots to the throat/jaw & follow with a knee to the groin, the bouncer inturrepted happily before i could do any of that.

In hindsight i think the best move would have been to step back & kick him squre in the groin but that didnt go through my head at the time.

Really annoyed with my mate at the moment. It ended with me, my mate & 1 other friend getting thrown out different exits, i met up with my one friend then he went inside to get someone else we were with who didnt get involved at all. While i circled the building to find the original mate who started it all my two other friends who werent really involved got jumped by the 5 guys from inside. However we were all alright after with only superficial bruises as far as i know, gonna check up on them later.

Sorry for all the “guys”, “mates” & “friends” but i hope its intelligible enough.

Btw when i stepped in & grabbed the guy it seemed to work quite well as he just froze like a rabbit in the headlights.

How long did it take for the bouncers to get involved?

[cearball]

Re: Drinking & Krav

The whole thing seemed longer than it was, incident probably only lasted about 1 or 2 minutes.
So bouncers got involved pretty sharpish.

[marceloazevedo]

Re: Drinking & Krav

quote Cearball:

The whole thing seemed longer than it was, incident probably only lasted about 1 or 2 minutes.
So bouncers got involved pretty sharpish.

To be honest, this situation happened to me two times already… ( I drink a lot )
In the first one, I hitted the guy in the neck and punched him in the sholder.. The fight ended right there…
But i really felt the alchohol in the other one, cause the guy which i was fighting with was a fighter of brazillian jiu-jitsu, and very graduated. I have 6 months of krav maga, still in the white belt. Well, he punched me in the face, my teeth made some damage on my mouth, i started bleeding, and that was it. But again, i wasn’t drunk, i was completly wasted, drank everything you could imagine that night. He had two other friends, i wasn’t paying attention on him when he hitted me…
Maybe when i get into the green belt or something, i will be able to fight being drunk… don’t advice you to do it though…Actually, i hope it will never happend to me again…

[thecrownsown]

Re: Drinking & Krav

quote Marceloazevedo:

To be honest, this situation happened to me two times already… ( I drink a lot )
In the first one, I hitted the guy in the neck and punched him in the sholder.. The fight ended right there…
But i really felt the alchohol in the other one, cause the guy which i was fighting with was a fighter of brazillian jiu-jitsu, and very graduated. I have 6 months of krav maga, still in the white belt. Well, he punched me in the face, my teeth made some damage on my mouth, i started bleeding, and that was it. But again, i wasn’t drunk, i was completly wasted, drank everything you could imagine that night. He had two other friends, i wasn’t paying attention on him when he hitted me…
Maybe when i get into the green belt or something, i will be able to fight being drunk… don’t advice you to do it though…Actually, i hope it will never happend to me again…

Street Rule #1: don’t go looking for trouble…..

[cearball]

Re: Drinking & Krav

quote Marceloazevedo:

To be honest, this situation happened to me two times already… ( I drink a lot )
In the first one, I hitted the guy in the neck and punched him in the sholder.. The fight ended right there…
But i really felt the alchohol in the other one, cause the guy which i was fighting with was a fighter of brazillian jiu-jitsu, and very graduated. I have 6 months of krav maga, still in the white belt. Well, he punched me in the face, my teeth made some damage on my mouth, i started bleeding, and that was it. But again, i wasn’t drunk, i was completly wasted, drank everything you could imagine that night. He had two other friends, i wasn’t paying attention on him when he hitted me…
Maybe when i get into the green belt or something, i will be able to fight being drunk… don’t advice you to do it though…Actually, i hope it will never happend to me again…

Doesnt sound like a good situation to be in.
Did you feel Krav helped at all in this situations, did any of your training kick in? Obviously it would have been alot better without any alcohol in your system but things like this can happen at any time.

[mgothers]

Re: Drinking & Krav

One thing I did not notice in the thread was one of the first rules of Krav Maga…go home alive…best way to not get hurt is to avoid the fight all together. Now that being said, obviously some times things do get to that point (ie 4 guys jumping on your mate I can see you wanting to break it up and sure enough one those guys swung at you).
Other thing I’d say is, when you are drunk, do you forget how to walk or talk…yeah to a degree, we all have slurged our speach and staggered around), but my point is, shouldn’t you be training to the point where you don’t think about knowing how to fight if you have to…you just know how to…if you think you will probably not perform up to your best (great example here…take something you’ve signed, then take a pen and try to trace your signature thinking about doing it…you’ll make a mess).
Bottom line, as you consume, all your functions will slowly get worse (speach, walking, ability to use Krav with out thinking)
You have to judge for yourself, but honestly, I go back to the first thing, go home alive with out fighting if you can!

[devilnuts]

Re: Drinking & Krav

This is an awesome topic!

First I would like to say that there is nothing wrong with going out and having some drinks. If you abstain from having a good time the way you like because you *may* end up in a situation where you have to fight, well that is the same as being afraid all the time. And we train so we don’t have to have that feeling.

Second, your performance fighting while intoxicated very heavily depends on how drunk you are. I have gotten into scraps buzzed and I came out on top, I have fought hammered and embarrassed myself. Of course these were not life or death fights, just little scuffles. Adrenaline works Wonders to improve your state up to a certain point.

Third, there is nothing wrong with light sparring after a few beers. In fact, it’s alot of fun. You just have to remember two things going into it: 1) be careful and 2) sometimes you get popped harder than expected. Be prepared to get a few bumps on the head, not the end of the world.

Of course, my background is a little bumpier than some and I recognize that not everybody can handle it. I can only speak for myself.

On a side note, always ALWAYS keep in mind that anything you do while under the influence usually puts a spotlight on you legally. If you put yourself into a situation where you could actually hurt someone, you better make damned sure it’s for the right reason because if you do hurt someone and alcohol was a factor you are going to get slammed for it in court. It impairs judgment, or so they say. Personally, I have *de-escalated* more fights drunk than I actually fought. It’s alot easier than you may think, you just have to master the art of telling someone what they want to hear to calm them down, and 9 out of 10 times the aggressor (in a bar situation) is going to be at least as drunk as you are.

[don]

Re: Drinking & Krav

http://www.intox.com/physiology.asp

my two pesos:

NOBODY (yes, that includes drunken style practitioners too) fights better drunk. There is a good reason why top level fighters (MMA, boxing, grappling, etc) do NOT step into the ring/on the mat while they are drunk.

How well KM works for you while you’re intoxicated is going to depend on quite a few factors (some you will have control over and many you won’t) – including how good are you to begin with (sober) and how messed up (intoxicated) you are.

“Don’t go to stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things.” Exactly. If you are always pushing your luck, pushing the envelope of what you can get away with or handle, putting yourself at risk – sooner or later, you’ll find yourself in a situation where the best training in the world won’t save you…

[b0123]

Re: Drinking & Krav

This is a topic I was actually thinking about recently just before I went out with a couple of my friends. I had just had a kickass training ession and I felt tired and energatic at the same time. In my oppinion a “bar situation” is probably the most likely situation in which you will ever encounter a possibly dangarous situation. Being intoxicated will in my oppinion definetely influence your performance. I for myself have decided to just take it easy. Never drink to much, to fast and for to long. Just have a good time, drink some water in between beers. I think its the responsible thing to do. especcially if your friends are a bit more drunk than you are….

[captncornerbanger]

Re: Drinking & Krav

quote Don:

“Don’t go to stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things.”

Wow, another WT’er………thumbsup

That was Geezer, wasn’t it?????

RS

[don]

Re: Drinking & Krav

quote CaptnCornerBanger:

Wow, another WT’er………thumbsup

That was Geezer, wasn’t it?????

RS

Hey Capt, Not sure what “WT’er” is… :dunno:

I should have made it more clear that I was quoting/echoing Michael (post 7). Sorry Mike!

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