False Instructor

[jonrogers44]

I posted on here a few months ago because I had moved to a new area and the intructor here was not teaching Krav.

I asked him what was going on and he told me that previously someone else had been teaching and he was going back to the basics here at the begining of the next month.

Well, he hasn’t. He says that the Krav knife vs empty hand block was “antiquated”. And the knife could come out and cut you. So, he has shown us two different blocks. One is a block, then pushing the hand, then hitting the hand on the thumb trying to break it. Thats just way too much for me. We are also being taught what looks like Kali stick fighting.

I have told a couple of students that this isn’t Krav. And another student who has prior training has agreed with me that we are not being taught Krav.

I am under membership contract with him till january then I am gone, but my question is , after I leave that place who do I tell about whats going on there?

And I would love for someone to come in with authority and catch him teaching what he calls Krav…and he also says that KMWW isnt up to date…..looks like I will be training alone again. :angry:

[kirsten]

Re: False Instructor

jonrogers44

Sorry to hear you are having a bad experience. I am going to assume this instructor is a KMW licensee? If so, then the most you can do is email KMW regarding the issue. I would imagine that with the attitude you explained, they won’t make it much further with KMW if they are.

KMW is up to date for what is currently happening in the United States of America. It may not be the newest and greatest cool super-fly thing from Israel, but we have dramatically different enviroments. Keep in mind, when Darren brought us KM it was for Law Enforcement. Out of that grew the civilian program. I can tell you that the threats we encounter in LE are very well suited to the KMW self-defenses and if there are modifications due in the system then they get addressed. Unfortunately every now and again a guy gets a little certification or rank under them and thinks that they are the best thing to happen to KM since sliced bread and start modifying the defenses to “make them their own”.

I would agree that it may be time to move on…

[kevin-mack]

Re: False Instructor

“Keep in mind, when Darren brought us KM it was for Law Enforcement. Out of that grew the civilian program.”

um…what do you mean by that? Do you mean your school?
Cause Darren was teaching KM for civilians for years before teaching LE

[phlegmon27]

Re: False Instructor

PM sent.

[kmmeanmom]

Re: False Instructor

I just came across this posting. I take class here and find the program exceptional. I love coming to this forum and reading everyones training tips and success stories. Normally this is such a positive place to surf.

I have been a student here for years. I go to class every week and have only partnered with Jon once or twice. Those classes were a terrible experience as you continually complained about your previous instructors, your financial difficulites and your horrible job at the Norfolks Sheriffs Department (you are lucky to have a job, I was recently laid off). Not to mention, coming to class while sick and then bragging you were going to become the instructor so you don’t have to pay for classes. (suprising what people can learn being aware of their surroundings). Crazy, I come to learn combat/self defense techniques and work out, do I really want to take class from a know it all, when I can take class from the well rounded, qualified instructors they currently have. Thankfully, this seems to not have worked out; seeing the great instructors have a student mentality, that you seem to lack.

Jon….if you can’t afford to train, maybe you should call them to work something out. I personally witnessed you talking with the lady behind the front desk, she was saying if you can’t afford the down payment, then go ahead and pay what you can now. Hello……keep your unprofessionalism and immaturity somewhere else, I don’t want to see it here. Check your contract, I pay for Combat Systems training and appreciate all I have been taught, especially the “after class” knife and stick training, love that our instructors always goes above and beyond for us.

I have forwarded this link to several others that train with us and the instructor as well. Maybe if you came to class more you’d be learning more too.

[bdking]

Re: False Instructor

Thanks for send me this link, sorry I am just replying now. I lack tolerance for internet opinions, when I went to class last week, I actually pulled Jon’s class count card. I wasn’t suprised to see that has not attended the seminars, clinics and workshops they have offered. I have attended more classes in the past three weeks then he has since he signed up.

I have been training here in Virginia Beach for over 2 years. I am a proud Marine, and have traveled from country to country, training whenever, however and whereever I can. I am personally 100% satisified with my combat/km and self defense training they are providing. I appreciate them going the extra mile, allowing me to come in during off hours to get some extra floor time.

I have two brotherhoods, those I serve with and those I train with…..HOORAH.

On a positive note, great forum, can’t wait to come back and read up on some of the topics.

[jonrogers44]

Re: False Instructor

Actually I have never complained about my previous instructors i still have contact with them, they are great people. And Honestly, I have a very good job that I enjoy, I just wish it payed more. And I have no disagreement with anyone over the level of professionalism that the instructors and staff have at ATAKICK. They are very helpyful, and kind. HOWEVER, the instrcutor even told me that his knife defenses were not KRAV, but something he learned in turkey. And another student has agreed he has a hybrid style that is not KRAV. I am glad that you are satisfied with your training, the instructor is highly skilled and very approachable and he does go the extra mile, BUT, I want to learn krav maga, not his version of it.

And I have never bragged about anything, especially teaching, I have so much more to learn. I did mention that i was taught differently though. And as far as me being sick, yes I AM SORRY for that, but I hate missing krav. And the instructor said on his own that I am very well trained. IF he did not believe that then why did I teach a class? And constantly go around helping correct mistakes with Mr. Thomas never saying anything.

Also, about my class card. I have asked for that class card since I started and have not seen it once, because it was never put out. They could not find it when I asked. So, how someone else was able to get a hold of it I have no idea. But yes I did miss a lot of class, I have a rotating job schedule that changes every week, and every 2 months from days to nights.

And as far as this:: “Check your contract, I pay for Combat Systems training and appreciate all I have been taught, especially the “after class” knife and stick training, love that our instructors always goes above and beyond for us.”

The instructors do go the extra mile, and THEY ARE ALL GREAT PEOPLE. But, as you said, you pay for COMBAT SYSTEMS TRAINING. Not krav maga. Maybe I am biased, and a bit brash. But all I want to do is learn Krav Maga. Not someones elses system. I once asked a student who has been there over a year, and doesnt he did not know 360 defense? And I could not find but 1 person who knew the correct Krav Maga stick defense.

What he teaches is self defense, he is highly skilled, a great and helpful person, but I want to learn Krav Maga. Not something else……

SO, in closing. I wish you all the best over there. There is no need to further have a forum arguement, I will be driving to Nc to do my training when I can.

[ron-pennell]

Re: False Instructor

Isn’t Jon Rogers the student with the attitude and inappropriate language in class?

Wasn’t someone complaining about him after class last night?

If you were qualified to instruct you would be, but many of us complain about you not trying to learn, and consistently suggesting you didn’t learn it that way and distracting us from moving forward with our training.

Trying to correct students on the floor when you aren’t the instructor is just another sign of disrespect, my 6 year old understands that concept.

Good luck in NC.

[jonrogers44]

Re: False Instructor

Yes, I do curse alot in my training. When I get attacked in the street, I do not want to be shocked by what someone is going to say. And feel intimidated by it, so I am sorry if I offended you.

And I am sorry if you felt I disrespected you in some way, however when an individual CANNOT keep their hands up, cannt rotate their bodies correctly for a kick, i am suppose to just not say anything?

Listen I am not on here to argue, I simply made the observation that IT IS NOT krav maga, which I was told by the instructor he has added other things to it. That is all. If you really want everyone there to join this forum so that I can be attacked in here go ahead, it just shows what type of people you are. I have nothing but praise for the students and staff their. ITS JUST NOT KRAV MAGA, as it was taught to me, as I have seen it in videos, books, and through other practioners.

Have a good day.

[kmman]

Re: False Instructor

What came first, the LE program or the civilian program?

[unstpabl1]

Re: False Instructor

quote jonrogers44:

And I am sorry if you felt I disrespected you in some way, however when an individual CANNOT keep their hands up, cannt rotate their bodies correctly for a kick, i am suppose to just not say anything?
.

Yes, not your problem, its theirs

[gijoegijane]

Re: False Instructor

Wow!! I am very excited to have one of my training buddies point out this
site to me. This is a great tool to utilize. Unfortunately the reason I
came to website initially is because a fellow student was talking after
class about one of our transfer students knocking our instructor. What he
is unaware of it that our loyalty runs deep here in Virginia Beach, and with
Krav World Wide as well. Each training night I leave work in Norfolk and
travel to Virginia Beach to train at what I consider to be the best training
facility in the tidewater area.

One of the things that I will say is that I am no nonsense individual.
So I am going to get straight to the point, Jon quit your moaning and
groaning. You have offended others in class by use of foul language which
was inappropriate for the occasion. You talk about your personal issues and
views in class and frankly some of us just don’t want to hear it. You have
taken this forum and presented a twisted version of what the instructor is
teaching to others worldwide.

Any mature responsible person realizes that there is always more to learn,
as a Kravist, we are continually learning new techniques. In all honesty if
the school is still going to allow you to train there, they are showing more
integrity than you. Recommendation is to take what is being taught and
learn.
I want to say that I think that this site is going to be very informative and I am looking forward to more contact with all of you. While on this tangent, can anyone help me with something? I am getting this intense pain shooting through my shoulder when doing blocking drills. We do an awesome warm up and stretching in each class, but I can’t get past the
pain and can only give about 60% during the blocking section of training.
Any advice or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

[smokelaw1]

Re: False Instructor

quote unstpabl1:

Yes, not your problem, its theirs

And on that note…once you are working out with someone for a while, and you KNOW that they WANT to hear from you, go ahead (IMHO), and say “keep those hands up” or “watch your footwork.” My best partners and I do this FOR each other. When a new guy does it…we get pissed. But if you aren’t an instructor, and haven’t been ASKED by the instructor to help with such things, then at MOST, you should point out your concerns to the instructor, and not try to teach on your own.

As to the folks who are showing up to defend your school and instructor, I think your loyalty is commendable.
I am curious about your response to (what I see as) the central complaint here. Is a “krav inspired” or “”krav influenced” program being taught, or is it the Official KMWW curriculum?

If the prior, if it is being “sold” as Krav…isn’t that a problem? If the latter, and there is something else going on here…well, I can’t comment without being there myself.

[maddogmean]

Re: False Instructor

I think back to all the problems with techniques that I needed to work out when I first started. If another student was correcting me, it would probably add to my frustration. If I’m partnered with someone that I’m comfortable with we usually point out problems with our techniques, otherwise I leave that up to the instructors.

Even 2+ years into KM I’m still working on every technique (even level 1), so there’s plenty to focus on. Just a little friendly advice: Where ever you end up training, focus on your own techniques and not those around you, it will only make you a better KM practioner.

[maddogmean]

Re: False Instructor

BTW, those new to the forum….welcome!

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