Fight Quest Krav Maga – My Observations

[satilan]

Re: Fight Quest Krav Maga – My Observations

quote CJs Dad:

Actually we do them all the time in fight class (wheres Jay and his psycho drills comment) And in level 3 ñ 4 almost every class. Miriam did a pretty good job of trying to kill me a few weeks ago. thumbsup

Then when my eye stupid eye gets better I’m joining fight classes… I’ll find the time.

Also, why don’t we do knife and stick defense in level two?
When I asked they told me I was “in over my head” and that it was a level 3-4 deal… Really??? We do gun defense but not stick/knife which is so much simpler and so much more important?

I know this is not the place, but stick and knife were taught to us in white or yellow belts…

[cjs-dad]

Re: Fight Quest Krav Maga – My Observations

quote Satilan:

Then when my eye stupid eye gets better I’m joining fight classes… I’ll find the time.

Also, why don’t we do knife and stick defense in level two?
When I asked they told me I was “in over my head” and that it was a level 3-4 deal… Really??? We do gun defense but not stick/knife which is so much simpler and so much more important?

I know this is not the place, but stick and knife were taught to us in white or yellow belts…

Start a new thread 🙂

[unstpabl1]

Re: Fight Quest Krav Maga – My Observations

Great thread

[giant-killer]

Re: Fight Quest Krav Maga – My Observations

quote Satilan:

Oh wow, we need to do this type of scenarios more…
It is very important to practice combat vs. mutiple attackers and also situational awareness and utilization of one’s environment against an opponent (such as in scattering rubber knives, sticks, and focus mits around the mat and having a free for all).

Another good idea, but this time to develop aggression would be a game similar to football where two teams can use any type of attacks to bring a rubber ball to the other side of the room… But this is for a different thread.

We often played a similar game when Oleg Taktarov was teaching at the NTC years ago. You couldn’t punch, but use submissions and wrestling and you were not allowed to stand up, just stay on your knees or crawl toward the goal.

Scattering weapons around the room is a good thing as well and using surprise attackers, multiple attackers etc.

_________________
Giantkiller

[gasparem]

Re: Fight Quest Krav Maga – My Observations

Where was the training? There were only a few clips. The rest was the poor guys getting there butts kicked. It was fun to watch, but if I had zero experience in Krav, I would not have had any understanding on what was going on. I think the HW show did at least show the guys learning some basics. 1-10 I give it a 7…I happen to like FQ the show in general.
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[liquid-rockface]

Re: Fight Quest Krav Maga – My Observations

To further clarify the whole attitude of Israelis to Americans: Israelis like Americans very much. They are our closest allies and the “American life” is the kind of dream that many Israelis have for their future. Freedom in your own country, low prices, competition etc.

So generally as a people they like Americans. And they are great for being friends etc. On the other hand, Americans in Israel (I’m talking mostly about Jews here obviously) are rather spoiled. At least the large majority of them are. Their families are generally well off, and on top of that the dollar is much stronger than the Israeli shekel, meaning that they generally have an easy time living in Israel. Together with that, they tend to be rather spoiled from the aspect that they are used to their parents helping them a lot, they are used to getting perfect service and getting what they want when they want it. They don’t like having a tough time and if it’s possible to buy their way out of the tough time by paying a bit extra, they will.

So why am I telling you all this? Because it is clear in the Fight Quest video that that’s the kind of attitude that they are trying to beat out of Doug and Jimmy. They assume (rightly or wrongly) that they are coming from this rather “spoiled” background, and they probably feel that they need to be quite tough and extreme on them otherwise they will go away saying “nah that wasn’t so tough, wasn’t so bad”. So they want to be certain that it’s tough for them, and also to knock a bit of suffering into them so they know what it’s like to have a tough life like many Israelis have, or feel they have.

So that’s what my take on it is, as an anglo-saxon non-American living in Israel…and yes I was a bit spoiled too before I came to Israel, but the Israelis knocked sense into me pretty quickly and I got over it.

[satilan]

Re: Fight Quest Krav Maga – My Observations

quote Liquid Rockface:

To further clarify the whole attitude of Israelis to Americans: Israelis like Americans very much. They are our closest allies and the “American life” is the kind of dream that many Israelis have for their future. Freedom in your own country, low prices, competition etc.

So generally as a people they like Americans. And they are great for being friends etc. On the other hand, Americans in Israel (I’m talking mostly about Jews here obviously) are rather spoiled. At least the large majority of them are. Their families are generally well off, and on top of that the dollar is much stronger than the Israeli shekel, meaning that they generally have an easy time living in Israel. Together with that, they tend to be rather spoiled from the aspect that they are used to their parents helping them a lot, they are used to getting perfect service and getting what they want when they want it. They don’t like having a tough time and if it’s possible to buy their way out of the tough time by paying a bit extra, they will.

So why am I telling you all this? Because it is clear in the Fight Quest video that that’s the kind of attitude that they are trying to beat out of Doug and Jimmy. They assume (rightly or wrongly) that they are coming from this rather “spoiled” background, and they probably feel that they need to be quite tough and extreme on them otherwise they will go away saying “nah that wasn’t so tough, wasn’t so bad”. So they want to be certain that it’s tough for them, and also to knock a bit of suffering into them so they know what it’s like to have a tough life like many Israelis have, or feel they have.

So that’s what my take on it is, as an anglo-saxon non-American living in Israel…and yes I was a bit spoiled too before I came to Israel, but the Israelis knocked sense into me pretty quickly and I got over it.

Wow, I love your explanation, thanks!
Yes – I agree… even though maybe most Israelis don’t actually think about all of these “logical” reasons… there is a general attitude towards Americans that seems to be rooted at that… But this attitude also works towards the French, the Indians, or any other nationality with which Israelis might come into contact with.

Another aspect of this is that Israel is a military society e.g. most everyone go to the military after high school. This is sort of a rite of passage and Israelis who fail to serve in the military from one reason or the other, are often regarded as less worthy. This way of thinking (which I don’t personally condone) is what drives Israelis to seek success against all odds in foreign countries, especially in bussiness…

Let me try to illustrate this: I am Argentinian born, both my parents are Argentinian and we moved to Israel in 1988. My dad works for an Israeli company, he travels to many LAtin American countries and sells their high tech solutions – but he always told me that he observed that young Israelis always believed they were better than other people around the world because they went through this military rite of passage which, supposedly, has made them better than others. He always educated me that even though I will go through this, to keep being humble and know that it does not make me better – i just gives me a different shaping experience.

I tried to listen to what my old man had said, and I think I still do a pretty good job at it. Plus, one must remember that generalizing anything is the root of all evil – it is what leads to discrimination and racism… so this is the point in my post where I must say that many if not most Israelis think this way – but definitely not all of them.

[skibum]

Re: Fight Quest Krav Maga – My Observations

LiquidRockFace and Satilan – I feel exactly the same way. I think also young Israelis have a bit of Napoleonic complex toward foreigners from other, especially big countries. To compensate for “Israel is a small country and there is not too many of us” mentality, they try to show foreigners how tough they are compared to them, softies. The best way to deal with it (IMO) is to be civil and play along. Use opportunity to show your true colors and earn respect this way. Let your actions speak for you. I think Doug and Jimmy at least showed that they could take the punishment and got their respect from instructors.

[satilan]

Re: Fight Quest Krav Maga – My Observations

quote skibum:

LiquidRockFace and Satilan – I feel exactly the same way. I think also young Israelis have a bit of Napoleonic complex toward foreigners from other, especially big countries. To compensate for “Israel is a small country and there is not too many of us” mentality, they try to show foreigners how tough they are compared to them, softies. The best way to deal with it (IMO) is to be civil and play along. Use opportunity to show your true colors and earn respect this way. Let your actions speak for you. I think Doug and Jimmy at least showed that they could take the punishment and got their respect from instructors.

I agree 100%
And yes, they did – good for them!

[vinman]

Re: Fight Quest Krav Maga – My Observations

quote resqr1:

I am going to add a little about the female who was training…HA more like intentionally humiliating…Doug. What I saw leads me to have little respect for her and her crew. It seemed to be more like a gang of thugs, who know what they are doing, picking on the little guy who has no clue as to what he just walked into. Not very respectful or respect earning in my book. I have trained for 21 years, not in Krav, and any instructor who walks up to the new guy and blasts him in the face with an elbow shouldn’t be an instructor. Especially when they have no clue what’s about to happen. That immediately brought one word to mind…BULLY. Then all they do is beat the hell out of him. The part where they are outside in the grove was terrible. She didn’t teach him a thing. Just left him to his own skill to fight her guys. Then when he gets on the ground she screams at him that he is dead. Excuse me?? That is absolute defeatist training. An instructor should NEVER tell a student they are dead. You react the way you train. So, if I get to the ground I’m dead? Hardly!!! She would have been way ahead to show him how to either get back up or how to WIN on the ground.

The military guys were very impressive. They at least showed the other guy (forgive me I can’t remember his name) what they expected and how to do some techniques.

That said, I also believe that the female was making every attempt to show up the American MALE, not show him Krav Maga.

The military guys appeared very sincere and helpful. I’m guessing they felt they had nothing to prove.

Sorry if This is long winded but I was sincerely hoping for a better display of Krav Maga from Doug’s half of the show.

thumbsup

couldn’t agree more….

[vinman]

Re: Fight Quest Krav Maga – My Observations

quote Satilan:

I enjoyed it way more than the equivalent Human Weapon episode, which was filled with exaggerations, errors, and generalizations

could you give us some examples ?

[satilan]

Re: Fight Quest Krav Maga – My Observations

quote Vinman:

could you give us some examples ?

Sure, the Human Weapon Krav Maga episode was just rediculous – I mean, I really liked it for biased reasons, but still! OMG PPL, some research please!

That episode is the reason why I watched the Fight Quest episode with a notepad next to me…

I don’t remember all mistakes, but off the top of my head:

1. Not every soldier in the IDF gets KM training – this is REALLY farfetched… only 10-20% of soldiers are combat soldiers and only the ones in infantry brigades and special units get some KM training, if you can call it that at all…
2. Like stated before, Itai (the instructor that teaches them gun disarms) is not Krav Maga – he is Commando KM which is a spin off of KM.
3. Deniss Hanover – the older guy that teaches them with real blades in top of mount Mesada in the desert – is NOT Krav Maga… He grew up in South Africa and had developed a whole different system by himself called Hisardut or “survival”. It is definitely NOT related to Krav Maga and also teaches values and morales in addition to actual melee weapon skills (e.g. how to stab people and use sticks and guns in close quarters).
4. They go to train in my old Gym in Netanya (the one where they walk down the stairs to)… Netanya is known jokingly as the crime center of Israel but this is not the case. It used to be like Chicago a little where mafia families took protection money from businesses, but this was in the 80’s. Netanya is hardly the crime capital of my country. I mean I walked the streets at night when I was 5 years old…
5. The army base which is “too secret to be told its name” is not a secret army base at all… it’s the LOTAR or “counterterrorism” school… and the Krav Maga there is really a joke… did you see them just go at it with haymaker style punches to the ribs until one of them falls? That is NOT Krav… it’s more like aggression training…

This is all I could remember…
I have it Tivoed I believe so I might be able to provide with a good report…

[jeremy-stafford]

Re: Fight Quest Krav Maga – My Observations

Great insights into the Israeli mindset. My experience with Israeli warfighters has been overwhelmingly positive and I have found them to be amongst the most motivated students that I ever had the opportunity to train. There is always going to a level of arrogance from those who have come from a martial society, to be honest, I think that most who have served tend to take military service into account when judging others. For instance, I for one could never vote for a President who never served.

Great thread.

[satilan]

Re: Fight Quest Krav Maga – My Observations

quote Jeremy Stafford:

Great insights into the Israeli mindset. My experience with Israeli warfighters has been overwhelmingly positive and I have found them to be amongst the most motivated students that I ever had the opportunity to train. There is always going to a level of arrogance from those who have come from a martial society, to be honest, I think that most who have served tend to take military service into account when judging others. For instance, I for one could never vote for a President who never served.

Great thread.

Yes,
Israeli society is a martial society where everyone must serve for 3 years (2 years for females). Many though, get exempted either for true or false motives… whatever it is, the nature of one’s duty is very important in Israeli society… Ex Combat soldiers are more likely to get employed for eample than ex non-vombat soldiers (e.g. paper pushers) for example.
And if you don’t serve… well… you are like an outcast all together.

[jay99]

Re: Fight Quest Krav Maga – My Observations

If I can briefly direct the conversation back up to Sean’s comments about reality based drills I would like to point out they are very much alive and well in our training. Each instructor has there own way of bringing it to the table. I have heard of WLA Instructors creating a walk through the garage where a student is attacked at random from blind spots and dark corners as it could happen in real life. Sean, who as I once pointed out has been described as a crazy f**ker, has us running a gauntlet to simulate fighting a way through a crowd. He puts us in the middle of multiple attackers with no choreography to it other than to fight our way out. I think he he even has a a bank robbery drill but I have yet to suffer it first hand.

Students also make an effort to add some realism to it. Just listen when an Instructor tells his “attackers” to yell and put the defender on their knees at gun point. Or when training “gun from behind” how many people actually put their fingers to the back of their partner to make sure they look to find that weapon before they turn and burst in.

From the emphasis to situational awareness to the all out aggression drills, realism is very much alive in our training. It seems to be what people really enjoy and keeps them coming back for more!

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