Home Forums Krav Maga Worldwide Forums KM Techniques & Krav Maga Books good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

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  • #31916
    leejam99
    Member

    there has been many discussions and questions about what happens to your hand when your grabbing the gun and the gun fires.

    I just found this video and the picture is worth a thousand.. you know.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QLaWL2PtNQ&eurl=http://www.your-krav-maga-expert.com/Gun-defense.html

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_qgymEefbM&eurl=http://www.your-krav-maga-expert.com/Gun-defense.html

    If this was posted before… opps.

    #73954

    Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

    I had not seen this video yet. Thanks for the post. It works just like I thought it would. Reverse slide bite.

    #74292
    dirty-harry
    Member

    Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

    The video wasn’t too clear on my work connection. Was the blokes hand injured? Does any burning occur when holding the barrel as the weapon fires?

    This has been something I have been keen to find out for a while.

    #74348
    kirk
    Member

    Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

    Awesome!

    #74351
    leejam99
    Member

    Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

    to me it was clear that nothing happen to his hand. he didn’t even flinch.

    #74352

    Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

    True, that guy didn’t flinch. I have to wonder how many times he might have done this before. I think for most people the fear of the pain, heat or just the sound is worse then the actual event would be. That said I wouldn’t want to show anybody new this video and say: “There see no big deal, just grab the gun and nothing bad will happen.”

    Having never actually had to use the gun defense in a real live situation I always to told myself it is going to hurt and am going to use that pain to hold on to the gun tighter hit that person even harder.

    #75510
    oscarmike
    Member

    Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

    The sound and having the slide pinch my skin would anger me more. I would have to shoot the person after it’s all said and done. Just a kneecap… for my troubles.

    #76199
    aviatordave
    Member

    Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

    quote Dirty_Harry:

    The video wasn’t too clear on my work connection. Was the blokes hand injured? Does any burning occur when holding the barrel as the weapon fires?

    This has been something I have been keen to find out for a while.

    Not where he grabbed it. If he were to have grabbed it very close to the front sight, it might have torn a gash out of his palm as the slide recoils. And he’s not really holding the barrel, the barrel is inside the part he grabbed, which is the slide. It won’t get hot from a single shot, nor even an entire magazine.

    But another thing to notice from that video – after it’s fired, do you see how the slide hasn’t fully returned forward? You can tell because you can see part of the barrel sticking out of the end of the slide. The gun won’t fire again until the slide is released. So as long as you don’t let go of it after it’s fired once, you don’t have to worry about it firing a second tme.

    A revolver is a different story. If you grab one from the top across the gap between the cylinder and barrel, there’s enough escaping blast up near the barrel to blow fingers off.

    #76248
    omfgnoogies
    Member

    Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

    quote AviatorDave:

    Not where he grabbed it. If he were to have grabbed it very close to the front sight, it might have torn a gash out of his palm as the slide recoils. And he’s not really holding the barrel, the barrel is inside the part he grabbed, which is the slide. It won’t get hot from a single shot, nor even an entire magazine.

    But another thing to notice from that video – after it’s fired, do you see how the slide hasn’t fully returned forward? You can tell because you can see part of the barrel sticking out of the end of the slide. The gun won’t fire again until the slide is released. So as long as you don’t let go of it after it’s fired once, you don’t have to worry about it firing a second tme.

    I think by blocking the chamber he prevented the shell from escaping. So he basically has a dead round in the chamber and has to physically pull the slide back to eject the casing before the gun can actually be used again.

    #76254

    Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

    Yes – basically a jam would quite likely be induced in a semi-automatic if someone fires a round during a KM gun disarm while the slide is being held – since the slide doesn’t go back, the shell fails to eject & a new round isn’t stripped from the magazine and chambered.

    So the gun would be in a failure mode until racked again…

    Fwiw – I asked someone who underwent the same type of live fire drill depicted in the first clip and they told me it was no problem at all to be gripping the slide when the gun was fired…

    #76273
    aviatordave
    Member

    Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

    Excellent observation. And it also may have in fact jammed the gun in a way that will require a lot more than just pulling back the slide.

    Sometimes when you get a FTE (either failure to extract or failure to eject, as looks to be the case here), when the slide comes forward to strip the next round from the magazine, it doesn’t have anywhere to go and ends up being pushed only halfway out of the magazine.

    So you can’t even pull the slide back to clear the jam. First you have to pull the magazine out, and it will take a lot more force to remove it than normal. I’ve had it happen on both Glocks and HKs, so it’s probably the same on every handgun. You have to really grab and rip the magazine out of the mag well, then rack the slide and let the jammed rounds fall out the magazine well, then go back to the Tap-Rack-Bang procedure.

    So cause a failure to eject may be very effective at neutralizing a handgun.

    #76280

    Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

    quote AviatorDave:

    Excellent observation. And it also may have in fact jammed the gun in a way that will require a lot more than just pulling back the slide.

    Sometimes when you get a FTE (either failure to extract or failure to eject, as looks to be the case here), when the slide comes forward to strip the next round from the magazine, it doesn’t have anywhere to go and ends up being pushed only halfway out of the magazine.

    So you can’t even pull the slide back to clear the jam. First you have to pull the magazine out, and it will take a lot more force to remove it than normal. I’ve had it happen on both Glocks and HKs, so it’s probably the same on every handgun. You have to really grab and rip the magazine out of the mag well, then rack the slide and let the jammed rounds fall out the magazine well, then go back to the Tap-Rack-Bang procedure.

    So cause a failure to eject may be very effective at neutralizing a handgun.

    This is a great discussion. But Dave, its not the same with every handgun. With the Glock, it is generally taught that you should rip the magazine out prior to cycling the slide (as it saves a step) during the feedway stoppage malfunction clearance. However, with all of the other pistol systems that I’ve trained on (Beretta, 1911, Sig, HK), the Manufacturer training teams that come out to provide “train the trainer” training have taught that the slide should be locked back, then the magazine removed. Locking the slide back prior to magazine removal takes the pressure off of the magazine and allows it to come out easily. All that being said, if you are able to get a good grasp of the magazine, and are fairly strong, you should be able to “rip” the mag out without locking the slide. It just won’t work for everyone.

    #76282
    aviatordave
    Member

    Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

    quote Jeremy Stafford:

    This is a great discussion. But Dave, its not the same with every handgun. With the Glock, it is generally taught that you should rip the magazine out prior to cycling the slide (as it saves a step) during the feedway stoppage malfunction clearance. However, with all of the other pistol systems that I’ve trained on (Beretta, 1911, Sig, HK), the Manufacturer training teams that come out to provide “train the trainer” training have taught that the slide should be locked back, then the magazine removed. Locking the slide back prior to magazine removal takes the pressure off of the magazine and allows it to come out easily. All that being said, if you are able to get a good grasp of the magazine, and are fairly strong, you should be able to “rip” the mag out without locking the slide. It just won’t work for everyone.

    Correct, I’m sure it’s not the same on all handguns. I’ll have to try some of my other handguns to see which ones do it, but I know with the the P7M13 I normally carry (and other P7 variants), it’s impossible to pull the slide back any further. I don’t own any Glocks, I’ve only used them in training, but I don’t remember being able to clear it only by pulling back on the slide, the magazine had to come out first. It’s one of the things we’ve trained for by intentionally inducing the failure. Ripping the magazine out is the only fast way to clear it.

    I guess you might be able to clear it by pulling back on the slide, turning it upside down and shaking the hell out of it, but that obviously isn’t going to work if someone is standing there beating on you.

    (Aside: it was one of the drills in an MP5 operators course I took – we randomly loaded snap caps or empty cases into both our MP5 mags and our sidearm mags. The idea was that when your MP5 stops, immediately switch to your sidearm to get back into the fight, and worry about getting the MP5 back up and running when you had a chance. Invariably, everybody would eventually end up with a jammed MP5 and a jammed pistol at the same time. Fun times. But I digress…)

    Whatever the case, if you can induce a FTE in an attacker’s handgun by grabbing and covering the ejection port, you have bought youself a lot of time to counter attack and he’s now holding nothing more than a blunt force weapon in his hand.

    #76284

    Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

    The P7 is a whole different thing….Do they even make those anymore?rofl2MP5 transition drills brings back fond Quantico memories……

    #76288
    aviatordave
    Member

    Re: good video on gun defense and what happens when you grab the barrel

    quote Jeremy Stafford:

    The P7 is a whole different thing….Do they even make those anymore?rofl2MP5 transition drills brings back fond Quantico memories……

    Nope, they quit making them about 2 years ago, everything is polymer now.

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