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Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
Why is your font like that? Did you copy and paste?
At the core, I agree with you such as “When a martial art becomes someone’s sole earnings the last thing they want is to loose students. If the syllabus consisted of, say, 10 moves people would get bored. That’s why there are lots of techniques added to the system – giving it more material to learn – Believe me, when under pressure, æ of what you learnt in class will not be recalled and you will resort to basics…..”
But……Each of us will retain, be able to use effectively different things. Its up to YOU to discard. There is no way of KM knowing what you will use. Mixing business in is always the challenge to a school owner—in any style. You can become a victim of your own success so I agree with your concern in that regard. I would have the same concern with ANY style.
Like I said earlier—look into American Kenpo and how Ed Parker has tons of useless techniques to add curriculum…then look into Tracy Kenpo and theres a ton more!!!! Thats the gripe with Kenpo.
I think in KM, its easier for people to discard what doesnt work (for them) because its fairly basic. So, to defend KM here, I’d say due to its basic approach, its easier than other styles to quickly figure out what may or may not work for you…again…different for each of us.
Its always a prefeence to keep “our” things a “secret” but we must realize that IF KM is good, it WILL grow. KM offers a lot of things to a lot of different people and is a great ADULT style(no belts and stupid funny looking uniforms).Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
One of the things I was thinking was that maybe Eyal was conducting an overall class. I believe you said that it was from P2-P5, so maybe he lightened it up for some and increased it for other. He set himself a midpoint for his training.
Also maybe the training you have recieved is more advanced than a standard P2 class. Maybe your instructor has been making certain that you knew the material and a little more just in case.
I haven’t heard anything but respect for Eyal’s training, here and from other KM organizations. So maybe there are other things in the mix of it than you maybe aware. Maybe the seminar host only wanted to go so far and then host a more advanced seminar in the future. :dunno:
Just some random thoughts I took away from this.
Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
well,least you dropped better names this time. Coups has his own forum now, but knew him from another. Big open hand guy, also ex cop and has a company to train police agencies.
The challenge I have with your posts, besides the fact that your first post here was negative:D: is the idea that because people can’t or don’t train as hardcore as you the system is weakened. Everybody plays golf at different levels of skill. Doesn’t mean the game is weakened. Its actually made stronger as the competion gets stronger
As an aside Thai fighters don’t knock each other out during sparring sessions.
Reality Based Self Defense is and isn’t for everyone. Krav has brought it to the masses. You can do alot of things with fighters that you can’t do with the average joe or jane. They have the physical and mental toughness necessary to train hard. Krav brings the average person into this mix. All classes grow , but flow at their own rate of intensity. How many women has krav taught serious self defense skills to as well as non athletic and older men?
Be it in class or seminar. As an instructor you have to run your class on a curve intensity wise. Taking in consideration your weaker links. The strong ones will find their own groove. In a small class that meetsdregularly its easy to figure out. In a seminar its always going to be to err on the side of safety
P2 sounds like grades lower than your ranked, so i’m sure it was a backward step for you. I’m sure you were better than the others you tested with.
Going to seminars is always a mixed bag. You get the good or the bad depending what you focus on. I go to a seminar of any kind, I look for one thing I can use. Then it worth the time. It sounds like you really like youy instructors and the training. So you get your certs and teach your classes the way you see it
Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
Seems P2 would be equivalent to yellow belt, meaning most people attending the seminar might not have trained for more than a few months. You can’t expect them to be perfect. You also can’t make yellow belt too hard to pass, or people might get discouraged and stop training altogether. Some of the students might not have had any prior experience before starting KM and there they are, a few months later, doing basic combatives and several techniques. To them, that’s a big step forward and that’s what’s being rewarded. Again, at that stage, they are not going to be perfect with everything.
As for the techniques being static, that’s really just the way you START to learn them. Just as in BJJ, if you’re new, they won’t have you practice these techniques (arm bar etc) with resistance. They’ll show them to you slowly and you’ll have to do plenty of repetitions before getting a feel for them and eventually using them in a fight. So, the same applies to KM. The learning process is gradual and the students testing for P2 are at the very beginning of that journey. In later levels, of course you will do more drills and things will be mixed up.
I really can’t think of too many techniques that have been added to the curriculum (at least not for KMAA Krav Maga). Some may have been discarded. The punch defense you are referring to might be for straight punch coming at you from an angle, if you can’t defend the regular way. Under certain situations those have validity and it makes sense to practice them. Other techniques, such as spinning kicks are mostly taught so your partner can throw some at you and you can learn to recognize them in a fight and defend against them.
Not sure what you don’t like about the gun defenses, you didn’t specify. There are a few different kinds of moves, depending where the gun is placed.
The kind of sparring you describe takes place here as well, we have fighting classes and do it in regular class as well. We even do knife- or stick fighting sometimes, but that would happen in higher levels, not LV1 or LV2.
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GiantkillerRe: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
Not surprised a L5 student found an L2 to be this way. Should I be?
Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
The difficult thing about those seminars is that as a lead instructor, you have to be able to reach the lowest common denominator. In other words, you survey the skill level initially, and make sure that everyone in the class is capable to learn the basics, at whatever level you are teaching. That’s why a lot of what you get is watered down, or very basic.
These issues come up because of, guess what, money! The guy organizing the seminar wants to get as many people in to make it worthwhile for him and the main event, so he starts advertising that it’s going to be a “special, this and that seminar” for certain levels only.
With 2 weeks to go, he realizes he needs more to make the money right, so he starts allowing lower levels in, before you know it, the mix of the various skill levels, causes the lead instructor to tone it down a bit so everyone can get it, so yellow belts are not overwhelmed, which results in the more advanced levels getting bored.
You can’t teach advanced knife defenses to yellow belts because they are not there yet.
Just my opinion, but I have been to a few and seen it.
Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
But from what I understand the whole thing was supposed to be a grading from beginner’s level to P2 (equivalent to yellow belt). So even if there were some more advanced people, I just don’t think you can expect advanced knife or gun stuff during a yellow belt seminar. There is no point in teaching it, the seminar is for reviewing the most basic techniques you will later be tested on. No reason to expect more or to conclude from that one experience that the entire system is watered down.
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GiantkillerRe: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
Some interesting points raised here. But only really one perspective. The UK gradings are underway this weekend and I have just attended the P1-P2 grading and seminar in Slough today. I was also at the grading and seminar in February and have been attending classes in the Thames Valley with the IKMF for the last two and a half years.
I wish I had taken the P1 and P2 gradings earlier.
Over the last couple of years I think KM has been a bit of a victim of it’s own success. As with many things, the media coverage has been influential in the development of an idea. As such, some people come to KM with expectations that are unrealistic. They are bound to be disapointed on occasion when the material delivered does not fit in the hole that their expectations have created.
Whilst the monthly cost of KM with the IKMF has been increased once since I have been training, I still think it is good value for money. The IKMF instructors are on the whole, very professional and deliver training that puts IKMF students in a good position to pass the gradings. The cost of the seminars is not unreasonable either. I most often hear this from students that are members of the military but there is a fundamental truth “You get out what you put in.” and this applies to ALL martial arts. I have spoken to people who have tried other martial arts and had issues that caused them to pack it in. KM is not the answer to every problem but it is not a sport and there is no competition. That appeals to a lot of people. There is a very solid community within the classes and as much support comes from the students as the instructors. No one will hang on to your sleeve to embarrass you at a KM class.
The seminar this weekend is around the way your mind connects with your body and controlling your mental state under stress. A lot of people didn’t get it, but a lot of those people either couldn’t accept it, understand it, or were unable to overcome the physical stress with mental conditioning. There was a message, but it required a level of enlightenment and fortitude to accept it.
I do not wish to be disparaging of those who do not “get it” but you have to want to learn something to be able to grasp it.
As far as the bars go in the IKMF flavour of KM, there is always going to be a margin of error. Some people who passed the P1 and P2 grade today possibly did not deserve it, but that’s not a feature unique to KM. However, passing the P2 grade unlocks a higher level of KM; because of it’s popularity and the high numbers of new joiners, classes are being split below P2, so it is necessary to achieve that level to gain access to the advanced techniques and train with the students with more experience. It is painful and tedious to keep going over the basic techniques again and again with P0 students (although it’s nice to help them learn). Also P2 opens up the possibility to try sparring and attend some of the more interesting courses so it is worth getting that far at the very least. As my training partner rightly pointed out today, P3 is probably where they seperate the men from the others.
Roll on January.
Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
In this I will attempt to account for your experience Michael.
First off is Mr. Eyal Yanilov Your problem with him seems to be that you were expecting some amazing new technique some unknowable take on KM that only the Global instructor would know. Well, If you wanted that you should be doing kung fu. This is a martial art with a given set of techniques and even fewer principles. It is a system ENTIRELY built from the ground up to be SIMPLE! He went over choke from in front for a a couple of reasons. One being that it DOES happen, Its happened to me several time. And because there were almost certainly more P2 there than P5.
As for his disposition… You may not be so happy if you lived in Israel.
I am not saying that you are totally wrong, I am merely telling you not to be so conclusive. In your first passage you make yourself sound like you think you know everything. While that may not be the case you should practice considering alternatives.
Another point I will cover is that EVERY martial art is going to have bad instructors and money makers. It doesnt matter how strick you are someone will either use the name without the training or those who trained will lose their way down the road and will take the money and give none of the effort. Perhaps this is the case of Eyal Yanilov, or perhaps you were seeing him in a light that did not flatter him.
I can tell you one thing, reguardless of how good a teacher her may be, he COULD (key word) easily kill you and most on this forum if we were an attacker.
What I said earlier also covers the other people at the testing that did not strike hard enough to your standard.
One reason Krav has started to attract such people is that it is becoming more and more accessable and thus bring in more less than morally perfect people.
Ill write more later Ive been here for 20 mins thinking lol
-Luke
Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
drmickey, with all due respect if you’ve been training for 5 years and still think there is a secret death touch technique that the masters withhold from their students until they have proven their loyalty and ability to walk on water, you’re in the wrong system. If you haven’t already seen and done all the techniques in Krav Maga in 5 years, you should question where and with whom you are training.
Now, that being said, if you were looking to BETTER your training and perform the techniques BETTER than before, and be critiqued in just a little different way and tweak that choke defense just a bit or move your stance just a little to make all your defenses better, then you probably got what you paid for.
Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
Gee, thanks James – I just passed the 5 year mark and was looking forward to that death touch thingie…
Wow – build me up to let me down…
Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
One thing I’ve noticed is techniques in the curriculum that don’t seem to be useful in real life situations. Slap kicks, spinning kicks, and my least favorite move so far….elbow escape while be mounted. If someone is riding the buck I’m going to strike them in groin or grab their shirt and pull them down. The shrimping move leaves you too open and takes too long.
I’m not sure if their trying to satisfy people’s fascination with MMA, but I think Krav should keep it simple and leave the sport fighting aspect out.
Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
have trained with Eyal and the instruction is top notch.
What were you looking for when you went to the training. The thing that drew me to Krav was that I found it to be very simple. It’s simplicity is elegantly brutal and not at all filled with garbage.
When I go to a seminar, phase, event or a class I always come away with something. This is the purpose of these events. It is very important that we maintain a humble spirit when training together. You can’t come to a trainining enviornment and be critical of the instructor and other students. You sound like a know it all.
The usefulness of the cup is in its emptiness….. You can’t accept my tea if your cup is already full….
Mad dog makes a very good point. I have been very outspoken regarding the MMA influence on Krav Maga. I hate it! It disgusts me. I am a huge MMA fan. That being said MMA has no place in Krav Maga. This influence is a detriment to the system. Most instructors don’t have the ability or the knowledge to explain the differences to the students. Most students are not able to discern for themselves. This is a huge problem.
The influence on the business however has been wonderful. I’m in the MMA capital of the world and I see it everyday. So its a fine line we must walk as Krav Maga instructors. Spinning kicks and slap kicks are probably not all that useful in the street. Just as arm bars and RNC’s are more suited for the ring.
But let’s be honest here. MMA is what’s hot today. So most schools have to include it in order to draw students.
Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
Let me just say first that all in all I hate MMA, everything about it. Most of all is that their technique is often sloppy and I simply hate non-self-defence sport fighting. If they put me in an MMA fight I would likely be trying to kill the person, instead of win the points. Not out of anger, simply the way I choose to fight.
This is also the reason I love Krav. I dont mean Krav that has been influenced by MMA and sport fighting and the stupidity or greed of a given instructor. I mean where it came from, WHY it was created. That is what I want. I do martial arts for a few simple reasons…
1. So that I know how to defend myself to the death if need be.
2. Its alot of fun and I enjoy the power, but not so much as to be full of myself.
3. I love to teach others.
Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
Stevetuna, no there is no death tough thingy, sorry. But you and TinyKrav both will be happy to know that we have perfected the kung fu panda “SKIDOOSH” technique and adapted it to Krav Maga methods. Unfortunately, I am the only one who can teach it properly and it takes most people, even very talented ones, about 15 years to master.
On a somewhat related note, we’ve just announced that we are now offering a new 15 year training package at a 10% discount for the first 50 people!
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