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Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
quote JamesH:I am the only one who can teach it properly and it takes most people, even very talented ones, about 15 years to master.Ummmmmm, are you SURE you’re the only one who knows this??????? Isn’t there ANYONE else????
Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
quote JamesH:Stevetuna, no there is no death tough thingy, sorry. …<snip>Actually there is, but it’s so super-secret that even the person you kill doesn’t know it. Of course since s/he doesn’t know s/he’s dead they keep right on attacking you, which somewhat compromises its overall utility (in the KM sense)!
Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
quote JamesH:Stevetuna, no there is no death tough thingy, sorry. But you and TinyKrav both will be happy to know that we have perfected the kung fu panda “SKIDOOSH” technique and adapted it to Krav Maga methods. Unfortunately, I am the only one who can teach it properly and it takes most people, even very talented ones, about 15 years to master.On a somewhat related note, we’ve just announced that we are now offering a new 15 year training package at a 10% discount for the first 50 people!
I donít think learning the technique is the issue, itís the clean up thatís the problem.
Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
The current Krav curriculum was pretty much set before MMA became so popular. I don’t believe that MMA influenced anything as far as Krav goes. We teach the slap kicks and spinning kicks mainly because others (the martial arts crowd) may use them against us. By learning them we can read them and figure out how to defend them. At instructor training Krav Worldwide has always taught these by first saying that they are not street self defense and that you don’t want to try to defend yourself with them. The most battle tested self defense system in the world, I gotta think.
Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
Old Krav,
Think about the logic behind that. We have our students throwing slap kicks because someone might use them against us and we need to know how to defend them???? Lol…. I’m sorry but its a bunch of nonsense. A slap kick is not an attackers choice. It is a “fighting” technique. So again the difference should be noted. Spinning kicks are also a fighting technique not an “attack”. This is the problem I have with this.
Self defense and fighting are two different things. Again if you are fighting techniques like checking kicks, bobbing and weaving etc.. have relevance. Defending a violent attack though is something else.
Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
“self defense and fighting are two different things” Wow, thanks psyops. I now see the light and no longer believe in Krav Maga. I am done.
NOT. It makes perfect sense to be prepared for anything, to know what someone may throw at you. We have knife training, handgun training, etc. to see how these things work even though I don’t intend to shoot or knife anyone. Learning worthless kicks that someone may use against us makes as much sense as learning ground techniques that arent’ self defense – those that a bjj practioner may use against us. I don’t think I’d defend myself with bjj or spin kicks on the street but it makes sense to have those tools in the toolbox. But, I know you’ll come back with something clever so have at it.
Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
Old Krav,
Thanks for that reminder that we train to be prepared for anything. Psyops definitely has a point in the sense that more than likely, the odds are quite low that anyone out on the street would choose to attack me w/ one of CJ’s Dad’s infamous spinning kicks as opposed to, say, a gun or knife or sheer brutal force … but I’d rather know that somewhere in my toolbox I have a defense for that should it ever happen. I’d hate to become complacent and not learn certain things just b/c I don’t think I’ll ever have to encounter them. It’s inevitable – like when the one part of the book you didn’t study is all that’s on the test. 😉
I can just it now: I’m being attacked, and trying to tell the attacker, “Wait, wait, wait, time out – you’re not allowed to use that, that’s “fighting”, not “attacking”. Can you try to choke me instead? Preferably from the front so I can follow up w/ a good solid groin kick?” 😉
Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
I agree Old Krav, I like learning attacks that may not be real practical for the street, like high kicks and spinning back kicks, just to be ready to defend against them.
We’ve even practiced armbars with that purpose in mind, I’m all for it.
Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
Hello, I’m intrigued by this thread. There seem to be a good many thoughtful responses and a few rude and/or defensive ones. It seems to me that at the core of the original post is a concern about the complicating of the gross motor skill based techniques which, if I understand things correctly, were at the heart of the original Krav techniques. To partially support that view, one need only go through this forum to see the large number of “what if” questions. Such questions, which concern themselves with ever increasingly complicated and/or difficult scenarios, appear to be inextricably tied up with the martial arts (and, yes, Krav is a martial art) where people spend time day-dreaming about their hobby. Contrast that with people who actually and brutally use their techniques on a frequent basis. I suppose you might call such people professionals.
The original post included a reference to Royal Marine training. That reminds me of the old IDF training joke which most of you have probably heard in ad nauseum. Question to IDF trainee: What did you learn today in Krav Maga? Answer (every day): We did pushups. One of the other posters noted that military people don’t train H2H very much. This is true, but on the other hand, if one loses the use of one’s weapon, one’s limited H2H skills had darned well better work!
Another element — not mentioned in the original post — which does tend to lessen the seriousness with which people view Krav , is the approach to advertising Krav by an appeal to losing weight, body sculpting the Krav way, giving you kid a sense of self reliance, etc. etc. Martial Arts schools have to pay the bills and maybe leave a little for the instructors, so all of the above are understandable and do no real harm, but they do
tend to make thoughtful people give pause.Please don’t misunderstand me, I think Krav is one of the two (equally) best SD systems currently out there. I also find fascinating the fact that Imi and Bruce Lee, working quite independently, seem to reached essentially the same conclusions as to which of the world’s approaches to punching, kicking, elbowing, etc are best. But that is a subject for another post.
Cheers,
Dr. JohnRe: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
Dr. John,
Besides Krav Maga, what is the other (equally) best self defense system in your opinion?
Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
My guess is JKD as per his reference to Bruce Lee. I would agree if that is indeed his opinion.
Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
quote jpazzz:Another element — not mentioned in the original post — which does tend to lessen the seriousness with which people view Krav, is the approach to advertising Krav by an appeal to losing weight, body sculpting the Krav way, giving you kid a sense of self reliance, etc. etc. Martial Arts schools have to pay the bills and maybe leave a little for the instructors, so all of the above are understandable and do no real harm, but they do tend to make thoughtful people give pause.Hi Dr. John! Thanks for an intelligent, well-thought out post. 🙂
Just wanted to add a couple things to your quote above. As an advertising person, I can definitely see the advantage to promoting whatever’s going to pique people’s interest in Krav Maga. It used to be that, when I told people I do Krav, they’d exclaim, “Oh, that’s what J-Lo did in Enough, right?”
However, recently, it’s taken a shift to, “Oh yeah, I saw that on Human Weapon” – which is much more in line w/ the image I’m guessing you’d rather see Krav have. You’ve heard the phrase, “Any press is good press?” Whether J-Lo, Hilary Swank at the Emmys, or Human Weapon is the first thing that people think of when they hear “Krav”, at least all these things brought/bring awareness to the general public. And if that makes even one person come in and learn skills that could save their lives, then all the better.
I train at the center in Sherman Oaks and W.LA, so I have no experience with the licensees and how they operate, however I wanted to clarify something, at least as far as the fitness element. At our Krav Maga centers, there are two separate programs – fitness and self-defense. Fitness includes the cardio, bag, kettlebell classes, etc. Self-defense (pretty self-explanatory) are the “level” classes – where you learn the Krav techniques, drills, etc.
The fitness programs and self-defense programs are separate, but still feed off each other – you learn the combative techniques in your self-defense class, and then these techniques (punches, kicks, elbows, knees, etc) carry over into combinations in bag class. And by students practicing and improving their techniques in bag class, their combatives in the self-defense classes become stronger and their technique more solid. While both programs are technically under the “Krav” umbrella, I feel like the actual Krav self-defense classes have retained their integrity.
Obviously, being a fitness instructor, I am a huge advocate of the fitness program. And I feel like this part of Krav really IS great for making you stronger, sculpting your body, giving you a killer workout, etc. I agree, it shouldn’t be the primary focus of any promotional or advertising efforts … after all, self-defense is the heart and soul of Krav Maga, but I do feel that the fitness program is a nice complement to the self-defense classes and adds to the program as a whole.
I actually don’t believe I’ve seen very much advertising/promotion along the “weight loss/body sculpting” vein for Krav Maga, but then, like I said, I don’t know how licensee studios w/ Krav programs promote themselves either. At least on the national level, I believe that much more advertising/promotional effort is put into promoting Krav as it really is – a reality-based, dynamic defense system.
Anyway, I’ll get off my pro-fitness soapbox now. 🙂 I just love all of this stuff, whether it’s learning to break chokes or hitting a bag. 🙂
Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
Hello,
As you can see, I’m new to the forum. I answered RPM RMKM, but apparently I mistakenly sent the answer only to him.Yes, it is JKD I was thinking of, although in my case, it is specifically Paul Vunak’s version of it. I don’t think the trapping of JKD/FMA will work in a real situation for anyone who is not practicing regularly in a studio. But the system in general is very good.
I believe that in my inadvertently private reply to RPM RMKM, I mentioned that I am an old man now, rather crippled by ski racing injuries in the 1950s. Hence, my most reliable Self Defense techniques have to include weapons. I add this so that anyone who disagrees or takes umbrage at anything I’ve written can feel free to write me off as ignorant and useless (both probably true!).
One thing I especially admire about Krav Maga is that it fundamentally assumes self defense rather than fighting. Certainly striking the first blow in a conflict has advantages, but it also is apt to get you arrested as the bad guy in modern scenarios. For me, there is another advantage to what some conceive of as passivity. Just the other day, D, my good lady, and I were shopping when a huge and rather angry man confronted me. I still don’t know what his problem was — I gather he thought I had somehow insulted him or the people he was with…which is interesting given that I have no idea where he came from. The guy was scary. I was able, without even compromising my dignity — although dignity is in the end a silly thing to worry about — to defuse the situation. I believe such behavior rests at the heart of Krav Maga. It’s one of its genuine goodnesses.
Golly I’ve gone on!
Anyway, I retain an interest and privately work out utilizing Krav and PFS techniques.
Cheers,
Dr. John
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