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One of the things that attracted me to KM was the fact that it was created within the 20th century and the governing body was interested in adapting and evolving the system to meet new challenges and requirements.
In light of that, I was thinking about this question the other day:
Are there human reactions or instinctual movements that have not been integrated into any KM moves/techniques?
I can’t think of any, but before I took KM I would not have correlated any reflex actions to defensive moves.
And another question to ponder:
Is there an effective techinque to defend against tazer attack?
The prongs that you press against the target would probably be just a variation of defense against knife. The ones that shoot out wires from a distance would be more difficult.
quote :Are there human reactions or instinctual movements that have not been integrated into any KM moves/techniques?Yes, but there’s lots of natural reactions that are not very good for self defense. The body square hands down chin out fighting stance comes to mind.
quote :Is there an effective techinque to defend against tazer attack?The prongs that you press against the target would probably be just a variation of defense against knife. The ones that shoot out wires from a distance would be more difficult.
The kind you touch with is a stun gun. The propelled kind is a taser. Unless you can’t move the stun gun is not too much of a problem. They won’t incapacitate you instantly like on TV- I’ve been shocked with a 900000 volt stun gun as was very unimpressed. I would actually be happy my attacker was considerate enough to use something that doesn’t cause any real damage like a knife. I can’t comment on a taser.
There aren’t many defenses to a taser. Maybe a heavy jacket. The device shoots barbed darts, which are connected by a wire, to a battery housing. This housing send electricity through the little wire to the person shot with them. The compressed air system doesn’t shoot these barbs through your lungs, just enough to go below the surface of the skin, into the body, and not come loose or fall out. If you were to have on a denim jacket or thicker it may very well keep these from going in very far, if any.
What if the barbs hit the legs instead, would it still work? I just saw a video of some KM guys getting tasered, pretty impressive. Huge guys screaming and collapsing in pain, all except for our very own Brent, Mr Tough Guy, who just stood there looking bored as if he were waiting for the bus while volts upon volts of electricity was shooting through his body. 8)
I guess you couldn’t just pull the barbs out once they are stuck inside. The shock also seems to paralyze your body, so you couldn’t move your arms or legs to try and remove the weapon. Before the taser is fired, I don’t know, if you can run fast enough, maybe the wires would miss you? How long are those wires? Or maybe you could get in close and jam the weapon. Or pick up something to use as a shield before the taser is fired.
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GiantkillerUsing something as a shield (like a brief case or book bag) would probably be your best bet.
If you got an arm out in front of you and brought it down and across catching the wires before the electricity came on you might succeed but your chances would be slim. If you managed to position your arm so when it spasamed and jerked it could accomplish the disconnect you might get lucky, but you could not predict where your arm would jerk and it might be too late even if you got the wires disconnected. I read that some people can be incapable of movement for up to 15 minutes (if they don’t suffer more serious injury) after being tazered. Would there be an reflex action that a tazer tiggers that could be planned on?
Presumably if an attacker was using a tazer it might be in the context of a kidnapping.
I wonder how long a person could be continuously tazered before he dies? Usually, these shocks are administered for only a few seconds at a time. What if you kept tazering for several minutes or longer? If you wanted to control a person for a longer period of time with a tazer, you might just have to continue firing those jolts.
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GiantkillerSearch tazer on YouTube … There used to be lots of good vids there of people being \”hit\” both as demos and BG’s … May answer some of your questions (though not the one about how long before death).
You may want to start with this one … 😆
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quote \”kravjeff\:You may want to start with this one … 😆Interesting.
There was another tazer vid that I saw. It involved college campus security and guy who was not cooperating. Towards the end they got into the same pattern. They were barking orders at the guy and he had been tazered several times and could not move, and because he did not follow orders because of his partial paralisis they zapped him again, and again. Just like the officer in this video.
Not exactly an \”officer friendly\” example. But, at least the guy was not shot and killed.
When he turned and was walking to the door of the car the officer probably was assuming that there may be a gun inside, thus the decision to tazer him.
The prongs hit him in the back, but he was still able to move but he was not doing any thing that would disconnect the wires. After a few more hits he could not do very much.
Have there been any instances of bad guys using tazers during robberies? I may try some searches on that.
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quote \”BradM\:That guy must be a real idiot. Should have put his hands behind his back.BINGO!!!!
You know, in many of these videos I hear people say they \”can’t\” get their hands behind their back (or get onto ther bellies or hold still … whatever). I think that must be a shock(as in suprise)/pain threshold issue. If you watch the vids of police or military getting tazed in training, most are laughing within a few seconds of hitting the ground. Because of this, I find it hard to believe that you \”can’t\” comply.
Incidentally, regarding that college student: Should’ve put his hands behind his back too … Call me cynical, but I doubt that he had any partial paralysis.
Moral of the story? If you’re doing something wrong, or the police think you are and they ask you to do something, it might be best to cooperate and not throw a punch or act like an a$$hole.
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quote \”kravjeff\:quote \”BradM\:That guy must be a real idiot. Should have put his hands behind his back.BINGO!!!!
You know, in many of these videos I hear people say they \”can’t\” get their hands behind their back …
True, True, although to be fair when he started saying \”can’t\” he had been shocked like 7 or 8 times.
Is a tazer more dangerous if applied to a smaller person, or are the effects the same, no matter how big or strong the targeted person is?
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Giantkillerquote :and not throw a punch or act like an a$$hole.head of nail, hammer applied. 😉
You know its funny how this applies to most of life, not just encounters with LEOs. I find that I get better service at restaurants, stores of any kind, at work, etc… when I follow the above words of wisdom.
kravjeff & jburtonpdx,
I agree with what you said. But it makes me wonder. What if a person that was being arrested or otherwise being told to do something by a poiice officer did have a problem that made it difficult to comply and explained it to the officer. How many police officers would respect that and try to accomodate the individual? Would the officer offer another solution? Or would he/she demand the individual do as requested or suffer the consequenses – such as tasing or physical force?I have often thought about this if it happened to me. First I have no intentions of doing anything to get arrested. But, what if it was a case of mistaken identity, and an officer thought I was a robbery or murder suspect or something like that? I have arthritis really bad in my left hand where the thumb connects. I’ve had it for years and learned to live with it. But anytime my left thumb and hand is grabbed or hit the wrong way, it causes me tremendous pain. Now if I was being arrested and the officer told me to turn around and put my hands behind my head or back while he searched me and/or cuffed me. If I told the officer I will comply with his demands but please be careful of my left hand because I have bad arthritis and if grabbed wrong causes me a lot of pain. Would the officer respect that and take it easy on my left hand? Or would he/she not care and grab my hand anyway – maybe not believing me – or worse, just don’t care.
Like I said, I’ve thought about this and what I would do if it happened. Of course I would try to not do anything to anger the officer more and cause my self more pain. But, if the pain in my hand was severe enough I make react.
Any views on this type sutuation – maybe from police officers that may read this.
Thanks
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