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Brad…In the situation you gave as an example (Robbery or Murder Suspect) then the Police Officer is likely to care or even listen to you when you say you have an arthritic hand. Even if it is a case of mistaken identity. I know I wouldn’t. That’s not being callous or uncaring but as a Police Officer my main goal for the day is to go home to my family and I’m going to be very cautious when dealing with somebody that I think is a Robbery or Murder suspect. My chief concern is going to be to get the guy handcuffed as quickly and safely as possible. Now if we were talking about a different situation ..for example your were pulled over for a traffic violtion and then it was found out you had a warrant on you for failling to pay a traffic ticket or bad check and you told me you had that problem with your hand then I would be more accomodating(depending on your demeanor). Matter of fact after you were searched I would probably put the handcuffs in front of you. It’s really different for each situation…factors like what it is they think you did,whether your an ass in the way your acting towards the Officer, or whether the Officer is just an ass to everyone. All that will come in to play in whether or not they listen,believe, or even care if you have a physical impairment that prevents you from doing what they are ordering you to do.
Thanks Mike. I appreciate your candor. Guess I knew that it would depend on the situation. One thing for sure, I would be very cooperative, not giving the officer a reason to use unnecessary force.
Thanks again.
What if a suspect is deaf and can’t hear your commands? Do you have special ways to handle such a situation?
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GiantkillerGreat Discussion, I have to chime in. The issue of using a denim or heavy jacket. The newer Tasers have better probes, and type of pulse. This probe and pulse is said to travel through up to 2 inches of fabric. Two situations, the taser probes enter the body and the taser probes arc through clothing, but do not enter the body. WHen the probes enter the body, the 50000 volts and .04amps will lock up the muscle group it is conducting accross, thus, more probe spread, the more muscles that lock up. In the other situation, where the probes do not enter the body, there is still a hell of a pain compliance, but no muscle group lock up. Up here in the northwest, we purchase the heavier probes for more penitration, as everyone wears a heavy jacket, even in the summer. I like the idea of a quick roll to break the probes, but this is not likely going to happen as the juice flows the minute a circuit is made through the body. I just got mine issue three weeks ago. I used it once int he field on a gang banger following a knife attack. He was about 6 foot and 240lbs. He dropped like lead with only a 6 inch probe spread into his rib cage. Our pepper spray use has gone way down. Tasers rock, I never thought I would say that.
As to the case law question. Even if the police officer is making a \”bad arrest,\” it is still against the law to resist the arrest. THis allows the officers (deputies) to go home at night in one piece.
Could those taser probes penetrate a motorcycle jacket? If they don’t touch the body at all, would there still be pain? How long are the probes?
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GiantkillerI’m going to avoid the police procedure/hypothetical questions because that can lead down a really negative path. However, I can comment on the taser.
A few of us had the pleasure to be tased by LA County Sheriff’s finest at Advanced Law Enforcement training, and I can tell you the experience is far from easy.
The first thing we were told was that after being tased you would be fine. That’s true to a point, but it depends on the situation. We were in a controlled setting, watching other people get tased, so I would say that the adrenaline was at a minimum (or at least as minimal as it can be when getting ready for the 5 second ride). When we were done we had no real need or want to get up… we were just happy the pain was gone. You can chalk up other people laughing after to the want to show that they were man (or woman) enough to handle it.
I had the probe on my ankle and waist, so the majority of the shock went through my legs, but also part of my upper body. For the 5 seconds I was pretty much grunting uncontrollably, and I had no control over my body. My legs were locked completely, and my upper body was mostly locked up. About the only thing that I could move was my head.
Once the shock ended I collapsed, happy that the pain was gone. What hit me more than anything was how tired I was. My muscles were contracting harder then they ever had, and small muscles all around my legs and back that don’t usually contract that hard were extremely tired.
Would I comply immediately after something like that? Yes. However, someone that is on drugs, drunks, etc., may be less willing to comply because while they are temporarily incapacitated by the taser (it works on the central nervous system, so it will always affect the person regardless of any chemicals they have in their system) they may not be feeling the pain (or they may only feel a reduced amount).
One of the things that should be happening when a person is tased is that they should be immediately controlled and cuffed by another officer if available. You can touch a person while they are being tased, so the moment the shock ends they need to be controlled.
How many times can you get tased before you die? I don’t think that this will ever happen. There are no reported incidents of death due to taser use, and Taser International has tested the product on all different types of people, including some with pacemakers. Since the taser affect the CNS, it’s overloading the nerve impulses and forcing the muscles to contract. While I’m not well-versed in human physiology, my guess would be that a coherent person would pass-out from either fatigue or nervous system overload after repeated rides. Someone hopped up on the other hand may keep getting up, making control during and immediately following the tasing important.
So what do you do if you run into a thug with a taser? The simple answer is to treat it like a gun. It functions the same way (trigger press leading to a projectile), and it has the same shape and danger zone.
So, it only affects the muscles, not the heart or other organs? Is the pain caused by the extreme muscle contraction, or does it feel like an electric shock? Could it temporarily or permanently injure the muscles?
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GiantkillerRe:
quote \”binagaki\:… So what do you do if you run into a thug with a taser? The simple answer is to treat it like a gun. It functions the same way (trigger press leading to a projectile), and it has the same shape and danger zone.It is not like a gun in one respect, there would be far less of a psychological barrier to using it since you are not killing someone with it you are just knocking them down/out.
Great Response Binigaki, this is exactly what I have heard. My department will not let us get tased in training by policy. At my brothers agency, they took the full 5 second ride. My brother took the option of having the probes shot into him. Hit him in the upperspine and lower spine, right in the vertabre. He told me he screamed things and was very embarrassed. He told me he would provide the video for education, so when I get it I will post it.
The probe length is about 3/8 to 1/2 inch. Looks like a dual barbed harpoon. THe real penetration is in the mass of the probe (KE = 1/2 mass x vel squared). As for a motorcyle jacket I would say it would sail through a leather jacket, but it may have difficulty on the heavier reinforced areas of a kevlar racing type jacket; however, the current would carry and cause some serious contact pain. If the probes did not enter the body, there would be no muscle lock-up. I have been told it would not harm pace makers, and in animal testing (PETA unapproved) they could ride the wire for several minutes. One test human, rode the wire for some ungodly lenght of time to prove it was safe at Taser International.
I mean no disrespect, but what is the purpose or rationale of getting tased just for the sake of seeing what it feels like. For the life of me, I can’t understand why anyone would want to experience that pain for no reason. But, I guess to many there must be a reason for it – hats off to you – you got bigger kahoonies than I do. 😆
If you are going to rely on the taser as a weapon, I think it makes sense to have some idea of what it feels like. Also, if you are going to be a taser instructor, always better to speak out of experience.
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GiantkillerAn example of a non-law enforcement use of a Taser:
———————————————————————-NORTH BONNEVILLE, Wash. Aaron de Bruyn’s Taser was confiscated after police arrested him for using it on his 79-year-old grandmother-in-law.
De Bruyn admits he shocked her on her shoulder but says he did it because she refused to leave his house.
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Unless I am really mistaken the temporary paraylsis one suffers while being tased goes away as soon as the electrical impulse goes away. High voltage cannot cause muscle spasm, only contraction. Therefore when someone says \”I can’t\” they are suffering from panic. The pain from a taser is intense, but not so intense as to require medical attention.
As far as a tazer defense…there is none. If you have great presence of mind you can pull the darts out.
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