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Mike.
1. I am not a school owner
2. There seems to be an expectation out there that Krav Maga schools,by the virtue of it being a self defense system should provide services at a lesser rate and leave the commercial aspect out. Why? Based on what rule book? who said so?
schools are privately owned and always for profit. school owners make a significant monetary commitment to training, equipping and promoting the program. I wen through phase with guys who literally took all their savings to pay for themselves and rent some space from a JCC. as the result, there are thousands ordinary citizens out there that have learned how to protect themselves.what’s wrong with that?what’s wrong with system being accessible? most people are interested in learning the basics. others stick around for much more. meanwhile, there are groups of dedicated hardcore enthusiasts training with friends or in other self defense systems not Krav. but that’s it though! those guys were probably safe to begin with.there’s a guy in MD, who only teaches privates. and only to men. and guys that can take hardcore training. who needs training more, they or the people this guys won’t train? they are armed, aware and most have trained for many years. it’s the people that wouldn’t know a 360 block from a spinning back fist that are left out. at best going to neighborhood TKD studios and punching air.
Is the Krav Maga set up perfect?no, but I think it works pretty well. there’s no \”Krav Maga foundation\” that could open a free school in every city.I wish there was. I wish ther was a way for anyone that wanted to training to get it. but in order to make keep the program going, there has to be a financial incentive. Often, the schools make the only profit from the pro shop. So what?
Dan Inosanto-has a network of schools and certification that almost rivals KM.
The local YMCA-also charges money for TKD, Judo and whatever else
Every other self defense shop-has t shirts, videos etc.
Schools in Israel, Europe-also charge.
NTC is a one of a kind place. For one fee you get access to world class training in Krav, kickboxing, MMA, grappling. I have never heard of any other place like it and certainly not for that price.
Not many people want to take pay cuts or work for free. Am I saying every school owner is perfect-far from it. I have certainly met my share of shady individuals. But no more or less than in other lines of business.
As I said before, if you don’t want to pay for shirts or can’t afford it-talk to management, may be they can give you a break. Weigh out what other options you have. BTW-currently as a full time student I can’t afford to pay for training. So for all intents and purposes I am training in a \”garage with friends\”. If I want to train-I will work something out with a school, teach ,clean the mats, or whatever I need to do.Hi Emil, I want to apologize for the asasumption that you were a school owner.Your tag line and your Pov on what people were commenting on took me there. The big thing for me on this is I absolutely agree with profitability. Krav in order to be viable needs to be profitable as do we all 😀 Krav has done an excellent job of self promotion. Nobody here ever heard of it till these guys.Period. Darren and company put it on the map here. i think they did a great job and should be very proud of what they accomplished.People are commenting on this thread about a policy change thats going to cost them money. In a way it’s a forced compliance. People( customers) hate being told to do anything, then they added a very short time frame. People are always resistant to that. Krav is a service based business. In order to be truely successful, this type of business needs to thrive on the needs of the clients. Find out what they want, provide it, make it affordable, and they will willingly hand over their hard earned cash. So how do you do that? These are just quick thoughts<But the customer needs to feel like there is value to the fee..So if you decide to try to uniform up.You give a compelling reason why and say t shirts only to start and charge a reduced price $15 or so. How about this,We have adopted a cause and for the time being for every t shirt you buy we’re giving x amount to say cancer awareness,we think its important because…..Or you offer low priced weekend on various subjects and offer it to outsiders. There is so much you can do when you change your focus to service. This is not abpout krav, i think most business has neglected this and has forgotten that everyone who works there even the janitor is in sales.
mikeGuys!! Wow!! Quite a discussion!! But honestly, what’s the big deal?
– you could go and do Judo, Karate and Aikido in your Jeans right? Oh no, wait…guess you’d need a uniform.
– then at least at your workplace you can wear what you wanna wear, huh?? …that is if you don’t work in a place where they tell you exactly what to wear (and probably the only variety you can have is by choosing your underwear..).
=> It’s a uniform. So what. Like mentioned here before, it’s their school. They want everybody to wear uniforms, so do it. Didn’t you go to school? Should be used to it then. 😉
It’s a matter of representation. You want the class look in a certain way – looks sell, one could say. A uniform code makes it more \”professional-looking\”. There are so many places in life where you have a certain dress code. What’s so bad about this one??
Ahh, right: the money. Money is always a big issue and I wouldn’t mind either if the clothes were a bit cheaper…..but honestly, I don’t think they’re that bad. Only one of my shirts ever ripped – then I sat down at home and fixed it. Still wearing it. So what?? The black ones I bought two years ago are more like greyish now, I still wear them. When I started Krav, I only had three Krav-Shirts. Three classes per day = three shirts. So when I came home, I hand-washed them in like 5 minutes, let them dry over night and was ready to go the next day. You can work your way around buying 20 shirts if you are willing to clear a few obstacles.
And pants: mine never ripped. And they have been through some stuff. And my partner’s pants never ripped. And believe me – I am pulling and ripping hard on them (ex-Judoka. We always like to pull on clothing 😉 ). They are a bit long for short-legged people like me, but either I shortened them, ignored it or pulled them up higher and then just rolled the upper part over once or twice so it would look more like a hip-hugger pants than like pants sitting under my armpits.Don’t heat yourself up too much about this. No big deal. Krav tells you to adapt to new situations and to make the best out of it, right? So deal with it. I’m pretty sure you can. 😉
Hi all.
I have to say I’m a bit surprised that this issue has engendered much discussion.90% of the students who attend classes wear KM stuff anyway. We changed our signup policy to give away a t-shirt AND pants when people enroll, to accommodate the new rule, for the record we are now SPENDING more when someone signs up, because we want to make it inexpensive for them to wear KM stuff. How is that greedy?
And we’ve run a huge sale (trust me, WE didn’t make any money off it) to acommodate people who train a lot.
I’m sorry if it offends anyone’s sense of freedom, but IMHO it’s hardly a \”uniform.\” There’s a wide variety of stuff to wear.
(I just added this edit). By the way, I hope my comments don’t come off as defensive. I don’t mean to be counterattacking at all. I’m genuinely surprised that it’s an issue, and I’m interested in reading these posts.
Yep, we have had a uniform, Krav clothes, since day one. It’s a good idea. If you have a black belt in an art or are a Krav Instructor, then you have the right to wear Krav shorts. This very motivating on hot days, and it leaves no doubt as to who is who.
The t-shirt designs are good, and as has been stated before, there is much to be said about the quality and sizing of the striped pants. I think if someone worked on the clothes, then that would help. The fighting shorts-a \”seasonal item\” when I looked last were great and super for fight class–one other place you can wear shorts.Remember the Chuck Norris movie \”Real Men Wear Black?\” …..well, there you go…
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[quote=\”Lazlo\”] I think if someone worked on the clothes, then that would help. The fighting shorts-a \”seasonal item\” when I looked last were great and super for fight class–one other place you can wear shorts.
quote]I agree with you 100% The shorts are good and durable. I don’t care how cold it is, i will wear them since i can’t stand the pants. If these go on sale, i will buy 2.
i’ve seen a few old schoolers who have krav pants that are diamond stitched at the crotch area like gi pants. is there anyway we can get these back? I’ve noticed recently at the NTC that there are Under Armor type krav tops which is a good idea.
We used to have to wear KM pants/shirt for class, and even a specific color that changed with what level we were at. With 4 people in our family attending, that was a huge drain, and the instructor let us take what time we needed to get in compliance, even though that was still just 1 uniform per person (and a load of laundry every night we had class to be sure it was clean for next time).
He’s gone now (long story, not relevant here) and the owner of the schools in the are has taken back over and repealed that rule. He’s always been of the opinion that Krav is a defense system and as such shouldn’t require a uniform. However, he’s stated that he does like the looks of the shirts on every student in the room, but doesn’t care which shirts… so he may start asking the students to wear KM shirts to class.
Personally, I don’t have an issue with requiring uniforms for class, as long as the instructors/owners are realistic about it. The KM pants do NOT come in a size to fit me. I have a wide butt, there’s no two ways about it, but I’m not all **that** large, I wear a size 22 jean. But the largest pant will absolutely rip out if I try to do any exercising in it. And our girls who attend with us are 4′ 11\” and 5′ 6\” and we won’t even talk about how stupidly long the pants are on them!! Personally, if I were making the rule, I’d ask for KM shirts and set a dress code for the bottoms, but not require KM pants.
I would also be incredibly surprised if anyone makes enough on reselling the clothing to be worth the hassle of the uniform requirement. The markup isn’t high enough on the marketer/reseller end. There are better ways to increase your income than to try to sell workout clothes!
Wow!
We don’t require our students to wear uniforms as Roger is completely against the idea of strict rules. I am not opposed to the idea. However the quality of the uniform is one that I take issue with. Specifically the pants. How do I put this? THE PANTS SUCK! I would never require students to use inferior equipment or uniforms. To put it bluntly the pants are a complete disaster on every level. I personally have switched to traditional Black Gi pant in the winter time I wear the Krav pant in the summer because of heat. I don’t like training in shorts.
Overall though this should not be a big deal. By three shirts and this should get you through a week of training with a couple of washes.
Wow!
We don’t require our students to wear uniforms as Roger is completely against the idea of strict rules. I am not opposed to the idea. However the quality of the uniform is one that I take issue with. Specifically the pants. How do I put this? THE PANTS SUCK! I would never require students to use inferior equipment or uniforms. To put it bluntly the pants are a complete disaster on every level. I personally have switched to traditional Black Gi pant in the winter time I wear the Krav pant in the summer because of heat. I don’t like training in shorts.
Overall though this should not be a big deal. By three shirts and this should get you through a week of training with a couple of washes.
Hey Psyops,
I think it’s your jump spinning outside slapkick that is tearing your pants. 😀
I’ve been teaching and training in Krav for over 5 years and I’ve never had a pair of pants rip on me.
glenn, maybe you’re just not working hard enough to put any real stress on the material? just a thought…
quote Psyops: \”To put it bluntly the pants are a complete disaster on every level.\” 😆 😆 😆 Hope that comment won’t be seen as \”too negative\”, but I’d have to say I agree. 8)
Yes, the pants rip like crazy. Especially ground fighting will take its toll. I’ve had a pair of pants rip the very first minute I wore them! I keep stitching mine back up and also try to shorten them – with all the needlework I’m doing, they should be paying ME for the effort! 😉 Actually, we used to have black KM GI pants that were a lot stronger and they cost about the same as the \”disastrous\” ones, but lasted longer and weren’t too long.
If you are well off, buying the shirts and pants may not be a big deal, but I do believe we have plenty of students, who are more on a budget and for them it might be a problem. I’ve overheard some students once talk about the cost of shirts and how they add up and they were talking about REGULAR shirts that cost maybe 3 -5 bucks each. Handwashing them probably works better for the itsy bitsy ones noonian is wearing, than the macho ones I and the guys are used to. 😈 😉
One should also consider that this is a fairly recent policy change, so existing students may have already signed up for a year or more, believing they knew what the expense would be, now suddenly there comes all of that extra money they might have to spend. Newer students at least can make a decision BEFORE they sign up.
Just some things to consider. I’ve actually worn KM pants and shirts voluntarily ever since I’ve started training and just keep stitching them back up when they rip, which is tedious but doable and good practice in case I ever have to stitch up my head after a round kick gone wrong.
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Giantkiller
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