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quote \”Giantkiller\:Actually, we used to have black KM GI pants that were a lot stronger and they cost about the same as the \”disastrous\” ones, but lasted longer and weren’t too long._________________
Giantkilleryeah, those are the ones i was referring too. BRING THEM BACK!! they don’t rip and fit right for shortees. And if you’ve never had your krav nylon pants rip while training, well then good for you. you are lucky. just realize it does and has happened to quite a few of us. spending 40 bucks on pants that don’t last 24 hours is not cool.
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quote \”noonian\:Guys!! Wow!! Quite a discussion!! But honestly, what’s the big deal?
So deal with it. I’m pretty sure you can. 😉I’ll try to explain it. I have no horse in the race,but if I joined and signed a contract and a month or year later someone added an expense to that contract,any expense that was not discussed at the time of that contract. I would be upset. the fact that people are posting that they don’t understand why I would be upset,other places do it,like judo,kenpo etc is not a relevant discussion because they do it at point of sale. It’s a known expense. By the way any mention of judo in discussion of expenses in martial training is usually a lost cause as judo averages around $30 a month for class at least last i looked in L.A..
Now you add into the mix the timing. Everybody is broke during the holidays. I don’t think I need to explain why.\”I’m pretty sure you can understand why\”. If not deal with it as you say 😉 😉 Lets say you pay $85 per month taken from your checking account, now this month in order to continue training the days you train…you need what 2 shirts and at least a pair of pants,Let’s see thats $40 for the pants and $50 for the shirts And your expense to krav just got doubled this month.
Martial arts are notorious for their hidden testing fees. Lets see its $25for yellow,$35 orange $50 blue and $500 for black. Or you gotta buy theses patches at these level. OR change to more expensive uniforms at higher levels. People who are attracted self defense systems are wary of the mcdojo mentality. Your customers are the anti karate guys and gals 😆
Look guys,it doesn’t matter to me what you do,Its not my business in any real form. I like your system, this site,and all of the people I’ve met here. But I found it really odd how the ntc guys and owners don’t understand why it would be an issue. To me it shows a lack of hearing or listening or empathy for your customers concerns. I was trying to offer suggestions to help deal with those concerns and find a more harmonious way to deal. I probably failed and I probably am over stepping my place. But I will say this before I’m banished for life from all things krav 😀 these boards are a great way to listen to your clients and seperate th bullshit. but you have to put yourself in their shoes not yours to get it. Good Luck guys
mikeWell, the people that work at my school are cool. I’m hoping they allow the students a little time to build their wardrobe and don’t bust chops too bad. 😥
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quote \”Giantkiller\:Just some things to consider. I’ve actually worn KM pants and shirts voluntarily ever since I’ve started training and just keep stitching them back up when they rip, which is tedious but doable and good practice in case I ever have to stitch up my head after a round kick gone wrong._________________
GiantkillerMake that a round kick gone RIGHT and a defense gone wrong 😉
Honestly — This should be more than \”do-able\” … While it’s currently not required where I train, I kind of like the idea of uniformity in class – I think that it would potentially increase the bond that already exists in training.
unstpabl1,
No worries about expressing concerns, and you need to stir the pot A LOT more vigorously before the community here calls for your head.
On Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:45 pm , you posted:
\”But I found it really odd how the ntc guys and owners don’t understand why it would be an issue. To me it shows a lack of hearing or listening or empathy for your customers concerns.\”
A half an hour earlier (Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:12 am), John wrote:
\”We changed our signup policy to give away a t-shirt AND pants when people enroll, to accommodate the new rule, for the record we are now SPENDING more when someone signs up, because we want to make it inexpensive for them to wear KM stuff. How is that greedy?\”
I can understand a lack of empathy/hearing/listening, but the President of Krav Maga wrote publicly that they are GIVING T-SHIRTS AND PANTS AWAY with memberships before you wrote about people lacking hearing/listening ability(…….)
Lastly, if the integrity isn’t clear enough yet, perhaps ask John or the front desk for a complimentary uniform if you haven’t received yours already. I’m certain you can come to an understanding.
Frankly, there is a stern, cynical tone in your posts that is unsubstantiated. If its due to other grievances with NTC not mentioned, no one is twisting your arm to train there.
hey La Revancha I’m not sure how to approach this post. I think I over stepped a line somehow on a subject that really has no bearing on me what so ever. My thing is and the places where you can feel sarcasm to a degree was with people not understanding why people would be upset. I apoloogize for not being able to get my point accross.Where you post John’s policy on new students uniform pricing shows you did not get my point. That expense is a point of sale expense. The cost of signing up. I think people were expressing frustration due to a mandatory change in policy under a short compliance period. It doesn’t affect new students. What got me going on it was when someone would post I don’t know why they would be upset. If your landlord came to you today and said all rooms needed to be painted a certaqin color by New Year and you had to pay for it. Wouldn’t ypou be upset. Also in one of the posts, I offered suggestions on how to implement the changes gracefully. I like the idea of uniforms. It has many positives. I don’t think trying to implement it in 30 days during the holidays was the smartest customer service idea I heard of. But I also realze I could be wrong And its not my business.Just seemed odd. I am not questioning Mr. Whitmans integrity whatsoever. We had a discussion on this board not so long ago where he proved his integrity. I also don’t think they are being greedy, they have overhead and need to make their nut. I’m sorry this discussion went so deep. Especially, considering its not my fight 😆 Hopefully, this explains my Pov, if not I tried Good Luck.
mikeRe:
quote \”La Revancha\:Frankly, there is a stern, cynical tone in your posts that is unsubstantiated. If its due to other grievances with NTC not mentioned, no one is twisting your arm to train there.I went back over my posts to look for the cynicism. I found one place of anger toward Emin line on backyard training that i took to mean its inferior. Some of the best instructors in the world train in their backyards. I now understand that wasn’t his what he meant. I don’t believe my post were cynical or negative in anyway. I teach acting. I can take any line of dialogue and make you feel a differnt attitude on every reading. I can take a line like \”i love you\” and just frikken ooze it with venom. My point is not to brag about my worthless acting talent,but to show that intention is whats important. I know I used a lot of smileys in one of those posts to try to share the attitude, I was trying to convey. When we read posts, we tend to interpet it our own way. I can assure you my intention wasn’t cynical, I’m sorry If you took it that way. I was simply trying to express my opinion. The problem I have with this qoute of yours is that it totally attempts to invalidate my POV by labeling me a malcontent with an axe to grind toward the Ntc 😯 Of course that might not have been your intention 🙄
mikeunstpable,
Don’t worry, I really don’t think you \”overstepped a line\”. It just seems that people here seem to get terribly defensive about anything that could be seen as \”negative\”, even if we are discussing nothing more but shirts and pants.
Revancha says: \”you need to stir the pot A LOT more vigorously before the community here calls for your head.\”, then he blasts you calling you \”cynical\” and \”stern\” when all you were doing was making a clear, concise point. Also, why would anyone want to \”call for another’s head\”, just because he is voicing an opinion about shirts?
Actually, I agree with many of the things you are saying. A new customer can make a decision as to whether he wants to sign up with the added costs or not. A person who is signed up already might have some problems coming up with the extra money and won’t be able to get out of his contract. Also, John did say: \”I have to say I’m a bit surprised that this issue has engendered much discussion.\”, which is I guess what you were referring to and he has also proclaimed interest in this topic, which means you really can’t be faulted for commenting on it further.
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GiantkillerLOL…
No it was my kata like Reggie Valentine in Trading Places, that tears my pants. When I do a running front flip, turning into a spin kick, immediately going to a leg sweep, followed by my front punch defense of the splits, like Jean Claude Van Damme! That’s when the pants rip! 😆 😆
I took a look at a pair of the KM logo pants from the shelf at our gym/school last night. I was not too excited by them. There were way to long and they were a nylon material that did not look very breathable.
I’m glad our gym/school only encorages wearing the shirts.
I really don’t have any sympathy for those who have a GOOD Krav school to train at and compalin about having to wear Krav pants and shirts. For those of you that do train a GOOD Krav schools, you don’t know how fortunate you are. If you love Krav as much as I do, try living in an area where there are no good krav schools, then you may have something to complain about.
Before I moved, I trained at an excellant Krav school. I wore my Krav pants and T-shirt to every class and was proud to do so. Where I live now the schools that offer Krav are not good. So I opted to quit Krav training until I can find a good school.
You can be assured that if a good Krav school opened up close to me. I would enroll. Further more, I would wear any type clothing they wanted me to and pay the price.
No I’m not wealthy. I’m retired and living on living on pension checks and social security. But, I would find a way to pay for the uniforms, if required.
I’m sorry if I offended anyone, but I felt the need to vent on this subject. 😈
I kind of see what you are saying, but those are really two different issues. I do hope you’ll find a good school soon. 8)
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GiantkillerMike,
I’m not sure what size you are, but I’ve got a few extra shirts I’d be more than happy to give you.
Giantkiller, I’d loan you some but you might trip over them….. 😀
Here’s my issue with the \”uniform\”. While the gi is functional in other disciplines to help with submissions in the ring etc, ours seems to reflect an outfit you might actually be wearing when something goes down in the real world. Sneakers, pants, t-shirt.
ANY uniform should reflect the intensity of the workout (imo). I won’t be doing jumping jacks, pushups, situps, and suicide sprints prior to a real situation, so pants in that scenario is fine. But in the classroom, it’s a cardio workout… period. Our class is like a sauna to begin with, no fans etc… to think about wearing nylon pants is just rediculous. I understand the need to make it \”tough\”, but there’s a point where common sense should prevail concerning wearing the appropriate clothing for the workout.
When I joined, I asked about a uniform and was told wear anything you’d wear to a gym (very appropriate). Recently however, the new people are showing up in krav shirts but nobody has said anything to me yet so I’m still wearing what I want: shorts and an UnderArmor shirt. Eventually, I’d love to see krav-wear available in that material. Maybe even an approved logo I can buy and have put on a shirt of my choice.
Lastly, the whole idea behind wearing a uniform is to promote \”uniformity\”. The wide range of differences I see on the current \”approved\” shirts in class range from giant smiley faces with black eyes to silly slogans almost begging the reader to pick a fight such as \”I am your worst case scenario.\” I’m surprised there isn’t a camoflage option that has fake muscles and ammo belts in an X pattern across the front. Some are black, some are white. Some have decent logos that I could easily see standing as a uniform. The bottom line is this… if we are to wear a uniform, it should at least BE uniform. Something tasteful would be appreciated too.
That’s just my .02
Hey Glenn,
Thanks for the offer, I could possibly be using them as nightgowns, or I could fold them in half, as I’m doing with the pants. 8) Or maybe you could steal the shirts off the backs of some unsuspecting km-xer’s, they might fit me just fine.
By the way, do you ever see Jarret Waldman at that new place? He told me one time he might have some old shirts he could give away (I guess he saw me in those ragged clothes and felt sorry 😉 ). Anyway, we didn’t talk about it anymore, but I’d have no problems accepting donations. So, fellow Kravers, go ahead, shower me with gifts! 😀 😀 😉
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Giantkiller
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