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This is my first post in the forum, and I would appreciate your input on a situation I had in my last class.
First, some quick background. I’m 40 years old, and I’m taking classes with an IKI (Israeli Krav International) – Moshe Katz school (which as far as I know from what I read in another thread, isn’t even considered Krav by some readers in this forum.) I’ve been training for about a month and a half, and I have no previous martial arts training in any form whatsoever. I live in a rather tough environment and my family was once randomly attacked by a person with a mental illness; my mother in particular was in serious danger in that situation. This made me consider learning some form of self-defense for the very first time, and so I started training with this school which is about an hour by car from where I live.
Now, here is the situation I would like your input on. In our last class we were doing some simple sparring, combined with low kicks and an elbow strike at the end. My sparring partner was apparently doing something wrong with the elbow attack, so the instructor stepped in for a moment to illustrate the motions. I put my hands in front of me, and the instructor tapped on one hand first, then the next, did the 2 low kicks without making contact… then to my complete surprise he went under my hands and against my chest full force with his elbow. BAM!! The hit pushed me back about 3 or 4 feet and it was extremely painful. I had to excuse myself for a moment to get some air. I heard the instructor behind me laugh and say “and I didn’t hit you as hard as I could.”
Needless to say, it was hard to keep up with the training for the rest of the class. I’ve had trouble sleeping for the last 2 days because of the chest pain. Today the pain was so bad that I had some difficulty breathing at work. It’s still not any better.
Honestly, I did not see the reason for him to hit me that hard to show a move, considering that the instructor was aware that 1) we were not using any protective gear, 2) I do not possess any previous martial arts training and thus am not used to this type of aggression, and 3) I was with my hands in front of me, by his instruction, not to protect myself but to offer a target for the punches in sparring. (He didn’t apologize, which I thought was alright, him being the instructor and all.)
I know and accept that there is some aggression involved in the training, but this felt like a betrayal by an instructor to the trust of a student who knows no better than to just stand there because he is told to do so without any idea of what’s coming or any knowledge of how to minimize the damage. This is about the 3rd time I’ve seen this happen in class, but it’s the first time I’ve been personally hurt.
I have since then considered moving to a KMW school (which I didn’t choose in the first place simply because it was farther away from home).
But my question is… is this a common practice for a KM instructor? Is this something I should expect any other KM instructor to do anywhere, anytime?
Because if it is, then it would make no difference as far as it goes to avoid this type of not so nice situation. Again, let me be clear about my understanding that there is some level of aggression to the training. But these random full force hits without protective gear are what worry me and make me wonder about what else to expect as a complete Krav noob.
What do you think? Thanks in advance for your input.
PS- Yes, the KMW school is farther from home, but I think I would have no problem driving the extra time. 🙂
Re: Krav noob in need of advice
Only you know if it was excessive and uncalled for. None on the forum were there. The only POV we have is yours. I always felt that if someone was using me for demo and I wasn’t allowed to fight back I shouldn’t be hit hard. But it is a contact sport and getting hit is part of it. I’d suggest watching his behavior with other students. If he seems to have an ego problem or is abusive get out of there. You don’t have to know anything about a subject to know if the person teaching has your best interest in mind. We know from life experience.
With that said a good instructor will push you beyond your comfort zone and sometimes contact is a part of it
Re: Krav noob in need of advice
quote :This is about the 3rd time I’ve seen this happen in class, but it’s the first time I’ve been personally hurt.Sounds like an instructor with an ego problem. There should be no need for him to intentionally injure his students. I’d look elsewhere.
Re: Krav noob in need of advice
I’ve been used in numerous demos by instructors and have never had something like that happen. When demonstrating the power behind a strike, instructors will typically hit some type of pad. It may be worth it to check out the Worldwide school. Stay safe.
Re: Krav noob in need of advice
In my 3 years of training i have never had an instructor to this to me or anyone in my class
Re: Krav noob in need of advice
Seems there are two issues, strongly coupled. The first is the action itself, the second is the instructor’s reaction to it. The action itself depends a lot on your POV, as others have indicated. I’ve trained with some pretty hard instructors and their speed and ferocity can take me back even though I know it’s coming, but I’ve never been more than momentarily shaken by one. (Uncoordinated fellow students… another matter entirely!)
What would worry me the most is the instructor’s attitude. Safety in training is perhaps the biggest aspect we’re taught from day one. You can’t train very easily if you’re hurt, and if you can’t train properly then you start to defeat the purpose of being in the class. Pretty sound logic. So I would expect the instructor to be one step (or more) ahead of everything (s)he does. Surprising the watching students is one thing, surprising the demo partner another thing entirely. (He could whisper his intent without affecting the demo for the class.) And I’ve always witnessed instructors apologize if something hasn’t gone according to their best laid plans. It’s not the apology per se but recognition that they let themselves get momentarily out of control and that they would rather not have that happen again. In sum, then, I too would be on the lookout for an ego issue, and take it from there.
Btw, fwiw I wouldn’t quit a school without talking to the instructor first. If there isn’t an ego problem then the conversation should be enlightening on both sides. If there is an ego problem then you get the answer to your question! That’s a win-win!
Re: Krav noob in need of advice
From my personal experience and from what I’ve witnessed, instructors will only use “excessive force” on the most senior students or on someone who they know can handle / absorb the strike(s) without any permanent damage (i.e. a big guy who can handle harder strikes to the body).
Normally this is done to show the rest of the class and lower classmen the toughness / caliber of the senior students… and / or to teach a valuable lesson to the student to learn how to take a strike or to teach them to defend a full speed + power strike properly.
In both cases, it’s important to note that the instructor does NOT intentionally try to cause serious bodily harm to the student. A certified instructor should already be trained / taught that.
I would take the advice of another poster to carefully study how that instructor treats other students in other classes. If he again strikes other students with excessive force, then leave immediately and seek instruction elsewhere.
You want realistic training, but you don’t want to be seriously or permanantly injured in the process.
Re: Krav noob in need of advice
I’ve been used in numerous demos, and I have never had an instructor strike me as part of the demo and then be dismissive if it looked like I might have gotten hurt! (Especially if they have instructed me NOT to defend.) Hurt, as in I gave an indication their strike was super painful, not the normal bumps and bruises we get in training. They usually also give me a whispered heads up on what will likely happen so I can tense my muscles or be ready to absorb a strike.
What concerns me most is that you’ve witnessed this type of behavior more than once. Maybe it’s just this instructor and you should try another instructor’s class? Or if it’s the entire school, I’d try another school. Stay safe!
Re: Krav noob in need of advice
Give the owner a chance to fix the problem. He/she/the corporate entity may not even be aware of the behavior.
On the flip side, you could have misunderstood what was supposed to happen, the instructor could have misunderstood your experience level, or there could have some misconduct.Re: Krav noob in need of advice
Re: Krav noob in need of advice
Q: What’s the first rule in Krav Maga?
A: Don’t get hurt.
Obviously there are degrees and specifics and sometimes training gets intense and you will take your lumps in Krav Maga. But come on. This was a LEVEL 1 CLASS, you haven’t been there for that long, and your instinct is that you have a bad feeling about the instructor. To quote Danny Hoch, “Always listen to your instinct.” I say leave and train at KMW.
By the way, sorry to hear your story. Both in terms of what happened in class recently and the reason you’re even taking Krav Maga in the first place. That said, taking Krav Maga is the absolute right thing to do. You’re just in the wrong place. You owe it to yourself to train properly and safely.
Re: Krav noob in need of advice
quote catapult:AMAZING!!!rofl2
Re: Krav noob in need of advice
I get hit while I demo all the time. accidents happen. just last week while explaining a technique to mettawp in mid sentence I got clocked. then for some strange reason that same guy while sparring got knocked out :dunno:
Re: Krav noob in need of advice
quote CJs Dad:I get hit while I demo all the time. accidents happen. just last week while explaining a technique to mettawp in mid sentence I got clocked. then for some strange reason that same guy while sparring got knocked out :dunno:Oh I remember well! (For the record I wasn’t the guy who hit Sean or got knocked out.) In his class we all expect a certain level of intensity and know that our limits are going to be pushed. We want that and willingly take that risk. We also trust Sean and have a good group dynamic based on time spent training together and mutual respect. Respect not only for each other as people but the roles we each play in class (student, teacher, assistant, etc.) and the responsibilities that come with those roles. None of this sounds like that’s the case in the OP’s situation, or that it was necessarily a random/accidental event.
Re: Krav noob in need of advice
Well it sounds more like what the OP was describing as malicious intent. I’ve seen my fair share of sadistic instructors or one we politely refer to as having heavy hands but there really is no reason to put yourself into that kind of a training situation.
Don’t give up on him just yet but try some of the suggestions mentioned and see if that helps. I’m sure no matter who he is he doesn’t want to lose you as a student.
However if he comes back at you with some we train hard cause the streets are hard nonsense, then you probably should consider other options.
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