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I have to admit, one of the things I find a little annoying about Krav Maga is the constant talk about how things are “on the street.”
Maybe if I were a cop or a bouncer or something like that it would seem less foreign but I do find it a bit comical to hear an instructor talk about how a person needs to be ready “on the street.”
There are a couple of reasons for this.
1- Most of the people in my class will never be anywhere near “the street.” These are kids whose closest brush with danger is the security staffed parking lot of the bar they visit on Fridays. The rest of them are businessmen, teachers, and soccer moms. If we really want to teach these people some practical skills, we should start with teaching them where they should and shouldn’t be walking… THEN we should teach them what to do if they find themselves out of the fishbowl and in a bad place.
2- If most of the people in my class are ever confronted by someone “on the street,” their best defense is going to be the good ol’ scream and run defense. Let’s face it, I don’t care how much training you have, if you’re a smaller guy things don’t look good for you if some thug gets his paw on you. In my experience, most “thugs” aren’t going to pick on somebody unless they have a- a weapon or b- a decent size advantage.
Consider a girl in my class as an example. She has years of Krav experience, has done some muay thai and a little BJJ. We’re practicing some choke and headlock defenses the other day and after she “breaks” my choke hold she turns into me and starts dishing knees. Is that REALLY a good idea? Do you really want to teach a girl to step inside and start throwing elbows at somebody twice her size (perhaps I should mention that I do outweigh this girl by a little more than 100 lbs). I guess I just think it’s a bit wrong to teach people how they should react on the street without taking reality into consideration.
I know I’ll catch a little hell from one or two posters here for saying this, but I seriously wonder if any of the instructors at other schools ever give out a reality check before they start telling people how to act on the street?
And if she doesn’t give knees, will the attacker just turn away and leave her alone? Of course a 100 pound girl should avoid picking a fight with a 200 pound man, but if she is being attacked and has no choice, she better give some strong counters, then get away as soon as possible. It’s not a fair fight, but hopefully she’ll have the element of surprise that will allow her to counter and then run when it’s save to do so.
As for the “street” thing, of course KM doesn’t try to make people into street thugs, they just try to explain what type of situation a person may encounter. Anyone can be the victim of robbery or carjacking or other types of violence, even if you live a generally safe live and KM prepares for that.
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GiantkillerOh I know she has to counter and run, but seriously… knees?
I just think that Krav sometimes (or maybe it’s just my instructor) needs to spend a little more time focusing on the “get the hell out of there” aspect vs the “now you’re in a fight” aspect.
Knees may be what she ends up being able to do. One doesn’t have time to figure out ‘which move should I do’. It’s the one that comes out of you and gets you the hell away.
As for ‘the street’, I’ve always taken it as what can happen when you’re ANYWHERE (home or otherwise).
We often talk about the need to make a hasty retreat, but in context. Can you tell by looking at someone how fast they run? Are you better off turning in and giving strong repetitive strikes or turning out to run and possibly being chased down from behind? The moment will dictate actions. We train in the self defense and fighting system Krav Maga, where we learn to defend and launch a strong counter offensive. We don’t train people to run faster, for that they need to get a running coach.
There is also a portion of self defense that should be dedicated to talking your way out of confrontations. Krav Maga does not necessarily deal with that portion of the confrontation either, but that doesn’t make what we do any less valuable.
BTW, a 100lb woman should ABSOLUTELY step in and give knees IF the moment dictates it; in other words, after she broke the choke hold did she stun with a good groin kick followed by a smashing elbow strike to the nose? If so, that would be a good time to deliver some extra damage to the groin or mid-section with knees before she turned and took off running, thereby ensuring a delayed pursuit.
I always saw the “on the street” references as a way to differentiate between being in the ring (or classroom environments) and being in a real situation and not so much as an indication the students are streetwise gangbangers.
Now I’m going to have to watch for it.
As for the girl dishing out the knees… It seems that’s the last thing you expected her to do, and that was just class. “On the street” having that sort of upperhand could give her the upperhand. Maybe the surprise from taking a couple knees to the solar plexus or a well placed elbow to the face will be enough to make the attacker want to look for an easier target? If you were the attacker, would you expect her to turn and break your nose?
And the groin doesn’t know if it’s a female shin or a male shin. 🙂
I know we train so our partners can go thru the motions and learn muscle memory. It’s not limited to the women tho, there are guys I wouldn’t put money on against a lot of women if it came to trading knuckles. Technique technique technique. (Umm, assembled and guided by principles of course.)
Yes, don’t forget the principles! Otherwise me and Ryan will hunt you down and beat you with Imi’s book. : )
You make good points and I agree in theory, I guess am just a little too involved in the risk analysis. It seems like it an awfully high risk thing to do and I would think it should be the exception rather than the norm.
I’ve been kicked square in the groin before and I’ve taken several shots to the nose. I’m not saying it didn’t hurt, but it didn’t drop or stop me. In fact, my first instinct after a shot like that is to close and grab until I could recover.
That’s why I have a hard time believing that stepping within gripping distance of me is a good idea. It sounds a lot creepier than it is, but I have actually had to bear hug and take down somebody who was kicking, screaming, and biting before. I only had the guy by about 50 lbs and it was over quickly. Maybe I’m just bigger than I thought, but I never really thought of myself as that much of a bear.
FWIW… And just for reference so we’re all talking about the same things here. I’m about 6′ and 250. If you had a student who was under 5’6″ and 150, would you advise him to risk stepping in unless it was the only option?
Jeremy, some how I think you and I would get along great.
In early stages of training, I believe students are taught this way to engender a fighting spirit and aggressiveness. I will say that in some cases though, I do feel like students are encouraged to be a dog chasing a car. I encourage my students to begin moving to the dead side ASAP, as opposed to engaging head-on, where attributes are more in play. We refer to it as fighting half a man.
BTW, another tenet of Krav Maga is to not sacrifice one danger for another, which could be an issue here.
quote DirtyHippieUte:I’m about 6′ and 250. If you had a student who was under 5’6″ and 150, would you advise him to risk stepping in unless it was the only option?Hmmm good question. You outweigh the student by 100 lbs and are 6 inches taller.
Point in case:
Keith Hackney (aka Giant Killer)
Height: 5’11
Weight: 200 lbsVS
Emmanuel Yarborough
Height: 6’8
Weight: 618So Yarborough was 9 inches taller, and 418 lbs heavier for this match.
Here’s the fight for those who haven’t seen it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYoF3F3nbBYTraining to fight people your own size only prepares you for the ring. While I agree with you it’s not an ideal situation, I think everyone benefits from training with people of all sizes. And if done right, the defense and counter happens explosively fast. You’re unloading a planned attack on someone who was planning to attack. If I didn’t believe in the principles, I wouldn’t be training in the techniques which in turn give credibility to the principles.
Blatant reference to another thread lol.Ryan perfect time for you to use this :rolleyes:
Oh and she’s 5″1 and weighs a little over 100lbs LINK she can do knee’s with the best of them.
Nice link Sean ~ Go Jarrett!
I’m 5’11 199 lbs and I can think of many guys I’d prefer to fight over her, man take a trained female and piss her off… hell no!
I thought the point of the knee to the groin (just one) was to get the bad guy to bend over so his throat, eyes, nose, cervical vertebrae and anything else breakable would be within reach of other combatives.
p.s. the one time I used krav was literally “on the street” while walking from the Metro to work at about 9 a.m. on a Friday morning. Totally out of the blue and I wasn’t doing anything risky to bring it about. The attacker (a woman about my size) ran up from behind me so I didn’t even see her coming. One of my friends had a man choke him at a very nice restaurant bar while waiting for a table. A friend of a friend was killed at a gas station he stopped at while on vacation in a “safe” area. Stuff does happen when you don’t expect it. Maybe you should collect some stories to ramp up the reality for yourself as well as your class.
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