- This topic has 32 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 11 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Re: Problems with Knife Disarms
As said before if you go at someone with a knife
and they kick you in the groin or attempt to kick
in the groin the knife will be the least of your worries.
I know very few guy’s that don’t flinch at it.Re: Problems with Knife Disarms
quote Ataraxic89:“you may even forget”
May? I might forget? Yes, I might. But I am asking for a disarm that works even if I dont forget.I mean, I love this disarm, it works wonderfully for me. I was merely asking what disarm might work better for a sub 100 lb female when her attacker didnt forget about his knife, when he didnt drop it.
If you say there isnt one, then I will probably tell her to run every time.
As for a local Krav school, there isnt one. Not within 4-5 hours of here.
If someone would like to open a school in Mobile, AL I would be your first student.
Just a suggestion, have you thought about searching for a “Knife Seminar” say in “KM” Atlanta and doing a weekend training / mini-vaction at the same time. I feel that with a trained KM instructor & structured enviroment you both should benefit greatly. Good luck to you both.
Re: Problems with Knife Disarms
quote mara_jade:Now let’s be correct here. KM-PMS wasn’t started by me. Now the couples marriage therapy phrase – I SWEAR BY THAT ONErofl2rofl2“OMG” & yet another class I have to sign up for “KM-PMS”!!!rofl2
Re: Problems with Knife Disarms
I have created a monster… I need to “TM” it and create shirts for us!
Re: Problems with Knife Disarms
I agree – those shirts will be a runaway best seller!
Back to the question of knife defenses… Darren Levine emphasized the importance of the simultaneous strike with the 360 block at a seminar that I took. He said pretty much what CarpeCanis had heard from the IDF folks – the strike almost always became a disarm. And if the first strike didn’t, then the second one did…
I believe in the importance of learning the basics. The 360 defenses are taught early on. An overhand strike, with or without an edged weapon, is blocked in this manner. I always talk about how the common refrain from stabbing victims is, “I didn’t realize that he had a knife…” Thus, when surprised by an overhand attack, treat it like an edged weapon attack, unless you have good reason not to (for example, you see that the bad guy is holding a blunt impact weapon – different defense).
As I said in another post, we had a murder about a month ago. One single overhand stab, one dead victim. All I could think about as I looked at the victim was, “Damn, if he’d spent five minutes in a Krav Maga class learning 360’s, he’d still be here…”
Train as if your life depends upon it.
Re: Problems with Knife Disarms
Kristen I Have the rights to km-pms and
ELF estrogen liberation force.rofl2rofl2rofl2Re: Problems with Knife Disarms
quote dckm:my only issue with krav maga knife disarms is that i wish they were taught earlier in the curriculum. a bad guy isn’t gonna wait til i’m on level 4 to attack me with a knife.Recommend to your instructors to have monthly weapon disarm classes.. We do this and they are actually quite popular.
Re: Problems with Knife Disarms
At my kung fu school, we’ve been going over how to use a staff as a weapon. To keep things in perspective and comment on strategy, we did some sparring with padded staves, rubber knives, and fencing masks. The guy with the knife would try to get past the staff and start stabbing, while the staff person would try to maintain distance with their longer weapon. Unless they had some skill and experience with live training with the staff, usually the knifer could absorb a strike/grab the staff and start stabbing. It was an eye opener for some people just how quick an attacker could bridge the gap. On the other hand, the staff could get in a few really solid strikes to the head and arms of the knifer, which would obviously be different with a solid piece of wood or metal several feet long. My thoughts:
-If you’re going to train with weapons, do some weapons sparring- knife fights are uncommon, but training against a resisting opponent with weapons gives you the attackers perspective of how to effectively attack and defend- if you don’t understand that, your defenses will not be as good. Get some rubber training knives or other trainers that you can attack each other with some intensity without injury, and wear a fencing mask, cup, and gloves. Play with other weapons if you have a safe training version.
-If someone is attacking you with a knife, arm yourself if you can. People experienced in real violence (Like Fairbairn) advocate grabbing a chair, stick, sand, whatever. With a short weapon coming your way, space is your friend. Attack close targets, and as their arm swings towards you learn to defend by attacking their weapon arm, not blocking it. Use your weapon to try to break the bones of the forearm and/or hand. If you have something like a chair, use it like a shield: when fighting with a shield, if you can use your forward momentum to keep your opponent moving back and off balance- keep going until you hit a wall or they fall down, then start smashing with the weapon.I know it’s not really what was asked, but I like to offer another perspective when I can.
Re: Problems with Knife Disarms
Kirsten, what is a NIKE defense? I haven’t heard that term before.
Also, my training partner put on full head and face protection and told me to really hit him with a palm strike when we were doing knife work. I am a big guy but at half speed, he flew backwards, the knife went flying and there is still a “Mike” shaped hole in the drywall. The striike was the disarm.
Re: Problems with Knife Disarms
quote stevetuna:I agree – those shirts will be a runaway best seller!Back to the question of knife defenses… Darren Levine emphasized the importance of the simultaneous strike with the 360 block at a seminar that I took. He said pretty much what CarpeCanis had heard from the IDF folks – the strike almost always became a disarm. And if the first strike didn’t, then the second one did…
Something I’ve learned, when we do the 360 defense with full gear on, a simultaneous punch to the chin at 50% power has *always* stopped additional attacks.
I can only imagine that without 16 oz gloves, headgear, and mouthpiece, a reasonable strike to the head will have the same or better effect.
Re: Problems with Knife Disarms
Hmmm respectfully I disagree.
Theres a huge difference between being hit by Amir/Darren/Psyops (the 225+ club) and being hit by a lawn gnome. By the same token hitting one of those guys might just make them angry. Iíve personally seen Kelly who we all know is no slouch, full swing hit BrentW straight in the forehead with a rattan stick and he barely noticed the inconvenience of the blood.
The point being is we train the full technique because we donít know the size disparity or potentially mitigating circumstances of the attacker like drug or alcohol influence.
Cavaliers work when done correctly, Jaretta is maybe 110 lbs on a good day and she has never had a problem taking the knife from me. (she’s the blonde elbowing me in the face in the forums banner)
Train hard and just pray you never have to use it.
Re: Problems with Knife Disarms
[quote=CJs Dad;44688].
Theres a huge difference between being hit by Amir/Darren/Psyops (the 225+ club) and being hit by a lawn gnome.
rofl2Re: Problems with Knife Disarms
quote CJs Dad:Hmmm respectfully I disagree.Theres a huge difference between being hit by Amir/Darren/Psyops (the 225+ club) and being hit by a lawn gnome. By the same token hitting one of those guys might just make them angry. Iíve personally seen Kelly who we all know is no slouch, full swing hit BrentW straight in the forehead with a rattan stick and he barely noticed the inconvenience of the blood.
The point being is we train the full technique because we donít know the size disparity or potentially mitigating circumstances of the attacker like drug or alcohol influence.
Cavaliers work when done correctly, Jaretta is maybe 110 lbs on a good day and she has never had a problem taking the knife from me. (she’s the blonde elbowing me in the face in the forums banner)
Train hard and just pray you never have to use it.
Just to clarify, when we do contact drills with gloves on, we don’t go 100% power. Full technique, yes, but not full power. Do you guys go all out in full contact drills?
:box2::chair::combat::box: rofl2
Re: Problems with Knife Disarms
quote brewerm:what is a NIKE defense? I haven’t heard that term before.Hi to all the participants here..
If I may:
The ‘Nike defense’ gets referred to regularly by our instructor – basically it is the concept of running away as fast as possible from the threat (!)
One of the most memorable exercises I had early on in KM was one where we knelt on the ground and tried to deal with a determined knife attacker – also in groups on the ground where it led to a lot of sweaty grappling, trying to wrestle away the knife & futile disarm attempts. There was no one who ‘survived’ these drills & very quickly it became clear to all involved just how bad a scenario it is to remain in close proximity to a knife attacker.
The emphasis in our group, even for the higher-leveled and LE/military members who train KM knife disarms, is to aggressively block/counter with a good body defence and create distance / get away..
A tip on the knife disarm / ‘scrape’ – if you bring down your hand aggressively with enough force – the ‘cavalier’ becomes a wrist-breaker.
Hard to hang on to the weapon with your wrist flopping around (!)..
As for KM-PMS, I can attest to being on the receiving end of some groin punishment delivered with extra gusto & flair during those modes..
Re: Problems with Knife Disarms
quote Chocolate Soldier:A tip on the knife disarm / ‘scrape’ – if you bring down your hand aggressively with enough force – the ‘cavalier’ becomes a wrist-breaker.*Note: Obviously, I don’t mean to do this in training to one’s training partner (!).
Breaking someone’s wrist could spell the end of their KM training career – I just mean the result is possible in a ‘real life’ incident if you start the cavalier knife disarm with an aggressive palm strike/blow, carrying through with the cavalier move & ‘scrape’ disarm.
More thoughts on KM couples ‘relationship therapy’: there could definitely be the effect of keeping the guys especially more in line as they know serious punishment / payback could be in store for them once they hit the training session..
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
