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Re: Tactical Decisions
Put the car between you and him, while trying to diffuse the situation as per other posters’ suggestions.
Tell him not to come closer. Or get into your car and be prepared to leave the scene, calling 911 at the same time.
And who saw the report on the guy in UK who was beaten to death by several 8 yr olds? Hit em back till they stop coming at you.
Re: Tactical Decisions
The Tuller Drill is the name of the experiment whereby someone armed with a knife can cross the 7 yard distance before someone with a gun can draw and shoot. We played this out during defensive tactics class at the police academy, utilizing red guns and plastic knives. The bottom line was that a motivated person with a knife can get to you most times before you can unholster and shoot.
Re: Tactical Decisions
Stevetuna, thanks for the name of the Drill. I’d never heard an actual name for it.
Re: Tactical Decisions
A grown up guy beaten to death by eight-year-olds?
Is there a link to that story?_________________
GiantkillerRe: Tactical Decisions
A great question and comments.
The Tueller Drill showed about 12 officers reacting to the same type of attack. The difference was distance, but they knew what was coming. It took 7 yards to draw and fire from the holster on a target that was told when he was allowed to go. The officer had time to set himself comfortable before he could even start. If you were not expecting a person to attack you from a traffic accident you would be screwed.
I saw an incident with a women who was hit by a guy who was about 6’+ and around 250#’s. She got out of the car, didn’t really say anything, and the guy went berserk. He started yelling at the women and she ran back to her car and got into the passenger seat. He proceeded to beat on her car. This was about the time when I told my wife to call the police and move the car. We had been at a public carwash, where the cars had pulled into. They were about 30 feet away when this all took place.
I went over and tried to calm the guy down, the whole time realizing that this is extremely stupid to do. The police were there in about 2 minutes and were very intolerant of his aggressive behavior. The officer knew me and asked me what had happened and took the man into custody. This actually worked out fairly well with all things considered. He caused enough damage between the accident and the bashing to have her car towed and her hospitalized for a few days. She sued the guy for quite a few things that didn’t even involve the car. He was charged with a few criminal acts as well. All over a simple accident and ignorance.
Just goes to show you to keep a level head in stressful situations.
Re: Tactical Decisions
quote Giant Killer:A grown up guy beaten to death by eight-year-olds? Is there a link to that story?
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GiantkillerI believe it was on SigForum. Let me see if I can find it again. It was something about the man and his son in a park.
Re: Tactical Decisions
I believe this is it. Not what I remembered. He died of a heart attack after being stoned. By a 10 year old.
Re: Tactical Decisions
Wow, that’s an interesting case. Now, looks like they were a bit older, the youngest 10 years, 9 months and the others 12 or 13 at the time the crime was committed. They say they didn’t intend to kill him (and the cause of death was a heart attack, not a blow with one of the rocks, although a rock did shatter the victim’s cheek bone), but they also seem to show little remorse knowing their actions killed someone.
Now, in that type of situation, if you are surrounded by five youngsters pelting you with rocks and sticks, I believe you’d be justified to take whatever action necessary to get away, even if it means hitting them or throwing some of the rocks back.
I wonder why the 17-year-old son of the victim didn’t try to stop them? But maybe it all happened too fast.
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GiantkillerRe: Tactical Decisions
quote Giant Killer:Now, in that type of situation, if you are surrounded by five youngsters pelting you with rocks and sticks, I believe you’d be justified to take whatever action necessary to get away, even if it means hitting them or throwing some of the rocks back._________________
GiantkillerAre you kidding? If a bunch of kids start beating me with rocks and sticks, they’re gonna be lucky if they don’t end up skewered on the end of my Rex Applegate!!! I’m not beyond slicing up some little hooligans that are trying to take me out… Does that make me an asshole?:dunno:
:abx:J-
Re: Tactical Decisions
I wondered the same thing, but from what I know of cricket, they have a ball and a bat. That bat isn’t a toy, it’s heavy. I would have gone to beating the hell out of at least one. Meanwhile singing take me out to the ball game. 12 to 14 is a good age to get your first beatdown. They heal quick.
Re: Tactical Decisions
I’m the kind of person where fights just seem to following me. I’m pretty big 6’3 210lbs, outgoing and I have a pretty aggressive nature which doesn’t help.
I noticed alot of my “altercations” are always at bars or when people are out and about drunk which also doesn’t help matters. Either way I’ll give a few examples on how I resoslved my situations.
Situation #1
I’m at a concert and a mosh pit forms around me. I’m with 2 girls, and I place myself between them and the crowd but the crowd keeps surging in pretty much blocking my route of escape. There is one dude who is running around pushing people into the pit and repeatedly pushes me into the pit. I’m not into moshing, so I set my feet and the next time he pushes me I basically use his force to throw him off balance and push him in instead. He immedietly comes around and starts swearing at me saying he going to “F me up” etc. We were pretty close (4 ft) and in very close quarters with not much room to swing. I basically growled into his face “You don’t want any of this” and he turned around. If he would have raised his hands I had a Elbow #1 followed with quick escape and evade route.
I have the mindset that if somone comes within arms length distance of me with an aggressive demenaor they mean to hurt me. I’ll back up maybe a step or 2 and repeat “Stay away, don’t come any closer” a few times and after that I’ll stop, and wait for them to make a move so long as a weapon dosn’t come out. I figure that I’ve had more training than most people out there and that when I react defensively I’m automatially following up with an attack to immobalize or render that person ineffective.
I kind of always look for an escape route and plan my attack before the situation becomes violent anyways so I have a plan of the first few moves.
Re: Tactical Decisions
The story of the 10 year old in UK reminds me of the boys, one 10, that attacked a homeless man in Orlando a few months ago. One dropped a concrete block on his head (face). As I remember, the boys all got jail or prison time. (They deserved it in my opinion.)
Re: Tactical Decisions
There was a similiar situation in south florida, with a homeless man a some older teens who beat him to death with a bat. In some situations life in prison may be too good.
If you have a 10 to 12 year old they may not know what the older teens are getting them into. then you get these older teens who are fully aware of their choices and don’t care. My bosses son falls into the doesn’t care category. He doesn’t listen to anything his parents tell him and then he’ll ask me. I offer my advice and when he doesn’t listen I tell him that I will visit and send him mail in prison or to his grave site.
I had a friend who was one of those hard headed never listened or knew better type of people. He was executed, fallen down and shot in the back of the head, at 14 yo, by a guy for calling his girlfriend the “B” word. Now one is dead, ones on death row, and the girl is with someone else. Someone should have thought this through a little more.
Re: Tactical Decisions
Ok another question: What do you do if you are threatened with a gun. Let’s say in situation “1” you are in the road at night and somebody comes up to you with a gun and demands your money and cellphone. Personally in this situation I think I would give up my wallet and cellphone because it’s not worth getting killed.
Now what would you do in that same situation (let’s call it “1a”) if he demands that you come with him. What would you do if maybe he’s not alone but there is an additional one or two aggressors, let’s say they have knives. So now you are presented with one assailant with a gun and two with knives, and they want you to come with them. Of course this is different from the wallet and cellphone scenario because you don’t know what they want from you. Attacking a person who is pointing a gun at you as well as two knife opponents could mean no possible chance of surviving. And what if the people with the knife are close at your side controlling you while the gunman is further away? Also, how do you control the overwhelming fear in such situations? If you think too much you could waste too much time and lose your opportunity of surprise. Think too little you could die from being too impulsive.
Now scenario no. “2”. You’re in your house and you are suddenly confronted by a man with a gun (or even a shotgun or automatic weapon). Or maybe it’s more than one man. These guys want to rob your house. They start to poke around and then they also want to tie you up to make sure you don’t run away or disturb them. What do you do? I’ve heard of this situation in my home country (South Africa) MANY times. Some of the time the people are tied up and are left unharmed while the home is ransacked. Other times they are severely assaulted, raped and/or killed (so you can’t testify). There have also been cases where the people are completely unharmed in the end and nothing is stolen (some friends of mine were held at gunpoint in their house no less than 5 times!!! Sometimes was outside in the garden). Now is not the time to guess what they are going to do with you, but it’s also not the time to be stupid and get killed. You’re also paralysed with fear.
So yeah, these scenarios flash through my head all the time and I can never really resolve them at all. I was hoping that some of you more experienced guys could help and maybe provide real-life stories.
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