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I’m surprised no one has started talking about this especially on here.
As more information comes out about this lets discuss.
What are your thoughts and opinions?
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quote \”donaldbruns\:Yeah, what’s gun defense for a guy carrying two pistols?From a seated position in a classroom at 15 feet away… my chosen defense at that point would be either .45 or .357. No one in this school had that option (nor am I advocating for carrying handguns in a school). Realistically, the best option that does not involve sacrificing oneself for the greater good is to run away, put yourself out of range of this madman as fast as possible.
Perhaps a true master of gun defense could approach and disarm him, but that’s not a risk I ever want to see anyone take.There are some things that even the best empty handed self defense/fighting system is unprepared for. There are defenses that MIGHT work…sometimes….
Tough situation, can’t carry a gun on campus so in between the time the SWAT shows up, if the bad gunman is walking or doing whatever he is doing.
I think now would be a good time to look around the classroom, think improvised weapons, maybe a paperweight that is pretty heavy can be thrown to the back of the bad gunman’s head when he is not looking. I hate to say it, don’t just throw it hard, you would have to throw it with the intention of killing him because he is the one holding the rifle/handgun and he is going to or has taken innocent lives. A pen/pencil stabbed in the soft part of his throat where the main artery is and the blood can’t be stopped, grab his wrist and smash his arm in half with blood rushing out of his elbow with bone shards from the broken arm in half, the gun should drop to the floor, hopefully it does not go off but that is much better than what the bad gunman has in mind for the innocent people.
Tough situation but something has to be done and fast in situations like this. Krav Maga may or may not come into the picture because you never know a student may have put his hand in the fish bowl and grabbed a big rock out of the water and threw it at the bad gunman’s head with the intention of killing him so that the crime shooting spree can be stopped right there.
It would be nice if somebody with Krav Maga self defense training could stop the bad gunman but realistically, time is of essence and the bad gunman must be stopped at once.
That whole situtation in VA sucks on so many levels I don’t know where to begin… 😡 😥
However, as one of my instructors explained: When in doubt, the best self defense system in the world is always Run-Fu.
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[quote=\”smokelaw1\”]
quote \”donaldbruns\:Yeah, what’s gun defense for a guy carrying two pistols?From a seated position in a classroom at 15 feet away… my chosen defense at that point would be either .45 or .357. No one in this school had that option (nor am I advocating for carrying handguns in a school). Realistically, the best option that does not involve sacrificing oneself for the greater good is to run away, put yourself out of range of this madman as fast as possible.
Bet there is not a person in that building didn’t wish they had a gun to defend themselves, no matter what their thoughts on the subject only hours before. And the anti gunners will come outta the wood work ,screaming for more stringent laws on guns. Just remember that the 1st responders couldn’t save them. Who is responsible for your safety? Isn’t that why people take martial arts classes, to take care of their physical and mental well being. Self Preservation is the first law of nature. Natures laws can’t be broken, but mans can. Laws don’t protect people, people willing to fight protect people.. Want proof. It was against the law to bring fire arms on campus…The Law Failed. It is against the law to commit murder….the Law Failed. One idiot killed all these people, because no one was empowered to stop him either by law or opportunity. First responders are going to get crucified in this. Its such a really sad thing, because their ROE are prescribed. The thing is schools are soft targets for terrorists and nut jobs. You can not negotiate with these folks. Its seems there are only 2 choices you can make run like the wind, sounds like motivation for sprint work or taking up Parkour 🙂 or fight by whatever means possible. Lets hope none of us has to make that decision for real. Though not religious, I pray for their families, for wisdom and the hope that good minded people understand our responsibilties in strengthening our abilitiy to respond when our rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are threatened, not weakening. Take care guys and let this event have meaning by stregthening our resolve.
By the way a holocaust survivior, died while blockaiding a door to protect his students as he had them escape. The thing is with our media we’ll all remember the idiots name, but we’ll forget the warriors. Shame on us.
mike
That Holocaust survivor’s name was Liviu Librescu. His son, Joe, was the guy who got me and a whole bunch of others at VT tuned into reality-based self defense.
Joe taught what he called Survival Defense – a mix of KM that he learned in the IDF, Kyokushin karate, Hisardut, and judo. It was fun, and it was brutal! I can only guess that Joe inherited that mindset from his Dad ………..
RIP Professor Librescu. We need more sheepdogs like him ………..
Dave
VT, Chemistry ’92Re:
quote \”VT Hokie\:That Holocaust survivor’s name was Liviu Librescu. His son, Joe, was the guy who got me and a whole bunch of others at VT tuned into reality-based self defense.Joe taught what he called Survival Defense – a mix of KM that he learned in the IDF, Kyokushin karate, Hisardut, and judo. It was fun, and it was brutal! I can only guess that Joe inherited that mindset from his Dad ………..
RIP Professor Librescu. We need more sheepdogs like him ………..
Dave
VT, Chemistry ’92Hey Dave. Thank you for taking the time to post. I don’t have words to describe the sympathy we all share for the Warrior Professor and all of the VT family of which the whole country is now a part of.
Its nice to know the father instilled a warriors heart to his family and his sons trained it in others. Hopefully, those others pass the mindset on as well.
This post feels inadequate 🙁 I hope you understand somehow the sentiment of it.
Best Wishes
MikeSo did Librescu himself also know KM or any other self-defense? I guess no matter what you know, it would be hard to defend in a situation like that. Even if you can get to one gun, he can still shoot you with the other.
As for defending against both guns, one might be able to redirect both of them, then kick to the groin. I wonder if one could use the attacker’s crossed arms as a leverage point to do a gun takeaway? Or maybe one could continue to kick until he lets go or others will come in to hit him or do whatever needs to be done to take him out.
Another improvised weapon to use might be chairs. If one could throw a chair, or swing it at him, it may not knock him out, but it might at very least make it harder for the attacker to aim the guns and hit with any accuracy. Then one could potentially get close enough to make a gun defense, or simply keep hitting him.
Also, if anyone had a liquid to splash in his face, it could distract him. Or a wide piece of cloth, such as a blanket or jacket to throw over his head, so he can’t see, then get close enough to fight.
If one could run, that would be the best option, however here the victims were apparently trapped in their classroom. I guess some escaped by jumping out the window. Using your own gun would be great, but I suppose they aren’t allowed on campus.
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GiantkillerSad situation. One nut can destroy so many families.
I forget if it was John or Londale who, after training in Israel for a short time, had this observation. \”You don’t get one nut shooting 20 people in a McDonalds in Israel. He may get a couple of rounds off but then everyone in the place is going to draw and fire on him.\” Don’t know if this would work in the U.S. but it couldn’t be worse than what happened.
Train hard!!
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Mike, I hear you loud and clear. Nothing inadequate at all, and I (and the entire Hokie Nation, I’d bet) appreciate the sentiment.
Regards,
Davequote \”unstpabl1\:Hey Dave. Thank you for taking the time to post. I don’t have words to describe the sympathy we all share for the Warrior Professor and all of the VT family of which the whole country is now a part of.Its nice to know the father instilled a warriors heart to his family and his sons trained it in others. Hopefully, those others pass the mindset on as well.
This post feels inadequate 🙁 I hope you understand somehow the sentiment of it.
Best Wishes
MikeRe:
[quote=\”VT Hokie\”]Mike, I hear you loud and clear. Nothing inadequate at all, and I (and the entire Hokie Nation, I’d bet) appreciate the sentiment.
Regards,
DaveThanks,buddy.
mikeRe:
Giant Killer: \”So did Librescu himself also know KM or any other self-defense? I guess no matter what you know, it would be hard to defend in a situation like that. Even if you can get to one gun, he can still shoot you with the other. …\”
In one report I heard he was shot through the door he was holding shut.
My condolences to all students and family at Virgina Tech.
I haven’t read all of these replies yet, but just posted in response on another forum to a similar question – I’m sure that when I go back and read all of your previous replies, we’ll have much in common:
The question was – Evacuate or Lockdown?
I think the comments are pertinent here as well, though I have added a few things that are not on the other forum …
I’m far from an expert but of these two options – I’d say evacuate … My kids are young ( 6 & 8 ) but they will learn to haul ass if God forbid the time comes. They will be warriors and if they can’t escape, they will fight.
Also:
Armed security should be in place, who are willing to shoot to kill. This includes, but is not limited to faculty/staff and either retired or off duty LEO’s. By the time the police/SWAT arrives, it’s just too late for some. I wouldn’t dream of dispariaging our LEO’s but they can’t be everywhere, all the time.
Finally, and maybe most importantly; Students should be able, and willing to arm themselves, and to defend themselves in a Hand to Hand situation … It’s against the law to carry firearms on many (if not all) campuses. In a place where one is not legally allowed to carry a firearm, be it an elementary school or a college campus, it simply becomes a \”kill zone\” because the only people who follow those rules are law abiding citizens – Not cowardly psychopaths hell bent on killing innocents; knowing there is no one to confront them. Interestingly, it’s also illegal to drink if you’re under 21, and to smoke pot; to do a lot of things these kids do … There have to be some warriors out there somewhere. I can’t help but think that if just one student was armed, or five or so started chucking chairs and stabbing with pencils/scissors etc … Lives would have been saved … Those involved may have been injured or killed but they would have been heroes.
Acedemia – An exchange of ideas, or an indocrination of misperceptions and emasculation?
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