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OK – First and foremost: Kindest regards to you and your family !!! I’m sincerely happy to hear that your sister is doing well.
Now: You’ve made so many good points, and articulated them so well that I have to take them one at a time – Incidentally, While I consider myself independent, I would classify myself as a conservative, though not Republican. That being said – To your first point:
\”I won’t argue that the majority of university profs are liberals. I don’t think it automatically follows that they are atttempting to \”indoctrinate\” their students. Fact of the matter is, by the time most kids get to college they are far more strongly influenced by their families and communities.\”
I generally agree that college aged kids are highly influenced by their families and communities prior to college, but only (or at least primarily) when it comes to their character; morals, principles, etc … Very few IMO have a real grasp of what’s going on outside of their school/mall/record (CD’s for you younger folks) stores … And I believe that there is a HUGE amount of biased \”teaching\” (indoctrination) going on at the universities, save for the sciences … Especially in the Liberal Arts (pardon the pun) and Social Sciences areas. I’ve never considered the encouragement of free thought to be left or right, though I think I see your point. However I don’t fully understnd it’s applicability here. Perhaps we simply have a divergence of opinion regarding what \”education\” should mean. To me it’s quite simple – You go to school, you learn the facts (as best their known) and you participate in discussion perhaps about those facts. It is not a venue for anyone (on either side) to spew their world views, then fail you if you disagree. And before you say it, no, I can’t cite a source (though Ward Churchill comes to mind). But, if you vehemently disagree, I’ll do my homework (so to speak) 😉
_________________________\”… the point I am trying to make is that the gun-banning advocates are a small minority. I am active on a couple of liberal blogs, and my sense (completely unscientific of course) is that most feel we already have enough legislation in place, and that more laws are not the answer.\”
I agree that more laws are not the answer, but would add that the current laws aren’t the answer either. This goes back to my point that law abiding gun owners suffer by ANY restriction on firearms; bad guys suffer little if at all! There must be tougher, more strongly enforced laws for someone convicted of a violent crime committed with a firearm – Plain and simple. The \”Brady Bill\” and the Gun Show restrictions were hysterical (not funny but hysterical) knee jerk reactions to highly pulblicized horrible, terrifying incidents. Look, I live 5 minutes from Columbine – I get it … I’m part of this community. I still don’t believe that passing or enforcing laws that effect me will deter in any way the next John Hinkley, Kleibold and Harris, Cho Seung Hui or Osama Bin fu@#!ng Laden. We have to find a way to keep the guns out of the hands of bad guys, who incidentally are armed to the teeth, and allow the good guys (you and I) to have our own arsenal to defend ourselves if that is what we feel is necessary!
Continued below – sorry … 🙄
Continued ..
Gun banning liberals may be the minority (I’m not conceding that incidentally) but you must admit that if that is truly they case, they are much, much louder than any gun supporting liberals … I suppose it all somes down to voting records … Flip a coin; loser has to do the research 🙂 This may be true of \”mainstream liberals\” but all I hear about in the media (even major media, not just talk radio) is the left chanting the mantra \”guns kill people\” … You and I almost certainly would agree that a.) guns don’t kill people, stupid vicious people kill people; and that b.) the vast vast vast majority of crimes committed with firearms are not committed by people that own those guns legally. By the way – Great news that you have a family member returning from Iraq – Thank him and your family for his service!
_____________________________\”\”What I labeled \”ridiculous\” in my original post is not the notion that, by and large, liberals are more in favor of gun laws. It was JewishFitness’s statement:
\”liberal teachers and staff’s minds have basically been dis-armed, even before they are able to learn the fundamentals of self defense.\”
What does that even mean? Seems to me to be playing into the stereotype of academics/intellectuals/liberals as limp-wristed, tweed-jacket-wearing, sissified Casper Milquetoasts (if they’re male). C’mon… you honestly think that liberal political ideology is going to render one incapable of learning self-defense? Data, please, if you have it.\”\”
I don’t have much to add – But you have to admit – Pacifism, at least from a political standpoint is much, much greater on the left than the right. Especially now that hardcore lefties (NOT ONES LIKE YOU) have been voted into office … Pelosi going to Syria??? Are you kidding me???
Frankly, I’m sick, sick, SICK of partisian bickering in politics and in the media – I believe that we all want what’s best for the country, it’s just that each side disagrees on the best way to go about achieving it and instead of working together,there’s been ever widening chasm between the parties.
I agree – Interesting, discussion, and even better that it’s been pleasant …
P.S. Milquetoast? 😆
Kravjeff,
Thanks first for the good thoughts re: my family. Sister is doing great (just had her second biopsy today, and no signs of rejection!). My nephew will be heading to Hawaii from Kuwait soon… after an extended tour in and around Baghdad, I know he’s happy to be headed somewhat closer to home.Thanks also for this:
\”Frankly, I’m sick, sick, SICK of partisian bickering in politics and in the media – I believe that we all want what’s best for the country,\”
I too am sick of it, because I think it makes it all too easy to dismiss people’s ideas if you are able to write them off as loons of one type or another. I am sick to freakin’ death of likes of Ann Coulter telling me I hate America and want American soldiers to die because I’m not a loyal Bushie.
Anyway, I digress again.
Your point about pacifism: I agree that as far as global politics goes, you’ll find more pacifists on the left. What is your definition of \”pacifism\” though? I don’t think by any stretch it includes not fighting back or defending yourself if attacked. Even in Krav, we’re taught to comply first (e.g., in a robbery) but be ready to strike. I stand by what I said, it is flatly ridiculous to assume that people are \”mentally disarmed\” (again, whatever the hell that means) because they’re liberal politically. I would call myself a pacifist. I much prefer peace and agreement to conflict and disharmony (probably why I’m a therapist). I try to live by a fundamental philosophy of \”don’t f*** with others and they’re less likely to f*** with you.\” It generally works pretty well with my family, neighbors, people I deal with in traffic, etc. Dealing with someone who poses a threat is another thing entirely.
And on the \”indoctrination\” issue. I don’t know how one would even go about trying to prove or disprove this. If it was the case, I think we’d have a much, much lower graduation rate in our university system. I have taught at 3 major universities, and I have to defend my colleagues on the left and the right. I think most are ethical, decent people who are able to see the difference between a student who has a contrary opinion and one who’s just a poor student. I got a complaint once, from a student in a social psychology course I taught. I flunked him on a paper because his sole source was the Bible. Was this because I find Christianity threatening to my world view? No. Similarly, I failed a student paper in a psyc of gender course because it was nothing more than a rant against organized sports (she alleged it \”caused\” gang rape). As pleased as I am that you think I’m special 😳 I really think it’s a disservice to dedicated academics to assume they act so unethically.
Ward Churchill… whackjob. Who’d ever heard of him before he spewed some crazy shit? No one. Please, don’t hold him up as a poster child for the left. I don’t know anyone who claims him.
Peace out! 😉
So, when you say you flunked them, was it because they didn’t make good arguments to support their theories? Or did they make decent arguments, but you just personally thought their ideas weren’t valid? Sport causing gang rape sounds far-fetched, I have to admit, but as long as someone attempts to make good points explaining his/her position, I’m not sure he/she should be flunked. But I’m not sure what the criteria was at your university, that’s just something that came to mind.
Peace to you, too! 😀
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GiantkillerI very rarely jump in on these here Political type discussions. I learned along time ago riding in a car on vacation that if I only looked out the Left side window, I missed all the good crap in the center and to the Right. Its actually worse cause you start to think that side your looking out is the whole world and the Correct map.
Though i suspect MaskedKat your one of those new fangled Southern Liberals, 😆 cause out here the liberals poster Cause,2nd only to telling our enemies our plans is anti gun. Though those same liberals, all have armed bodyguards and security who are usually a bit on the conservative side.
As far as University professors, I’d imagine it depends on the school. Some schools are conservative and others liberaL.Teaching is very personal and it is impossible to express ourselves, without expressing our personal POV. I think Colleges tend to be more liberal minded because people tend to be more liberal minded when young and adopt a more pragmatic(conservative) world view with age. At the moment I’m more concerned with the liberal attack on PC free speech than the lefts attack on homosexuality. Though both have far reaching effects on our rights. The ability to defend ourselves is a no brainer that has been tilted to the perpatrators side for a long time.
My real problem with this conversation 😆 Is that MaskedKat called JewishFitness on a statement and he hasn’t defended it. KravJeff you know better than to fight battles for others not willing to fight their own.
I don’t like to label myself especially with someone elses definitions.
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quote \”unstpabl1\:My real problem with this conversation 😆 Is that MaskedKat called JewishFitness on a statement and he hasn’t defended it. KravJeff you know better than to fight battles for others not willing to fight their own.Hey Mike!
I was never my intention to defend that statement or the poster. In fact, I had to go back and read it, twice, after your post because I wasn’t sure what you were talking about. 😀
It was MaskedKat that stimulated my thinking, not the initial post. Sorry for the confusion!
Hope you’re well!
MaskedKat – Didn’t know you were a therapist … Have a business card? 😉
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[quote=\”kravjeff
It was MaskedKat that stimulated my thinking, not the initial post. Sorry for the confusion!Hope you’re well![/quote]
😆 I was actually being playful and teasing all. I got up one morning recently….my tv set is my alarm….woke up to \”The View\” 🙄 Rosie and Joy arguing one side and the extremely vapid Elisabeth the other. I gave up discussing politics when I realized the audience was appaulding 2 stand up comics and a chick whose claim to fame is survivior and sleeping with a second string quarterback. 😆 Though they may have as much experience as our next President Obama after Oprah Winfrey gets him elected. 8) Please take the above as humor, though if I have to explain its funny…its probably not 😯
On the serious side as long as we have boots on the ground and our finest in the field there should only be one question How do we win? Islamo facism cannot be negotiated with. Ask the Israeli’s. I do also wonder what the percentage of liberals/conservatives that serve in the military. What scares me is. Are we a country thats willing to fight for our freedoms or have we become so self absorbed.
Oh well as far as guns in the hands of teachers,one got fired today for having a discussion on the VT tragedy in which he was simulating shooting students with his finger and one student finger shot him. The point being one armed commited individual could have stopped the madness. What happened to open exchanges. He pretty much got fired for stating the obvious. But its not liberal PC.
The bottomline on JewishFitnesses remark is that arming anyone, including me without the proper mindset is a waste of effort. How much of your krav training seeks to train that never die mentality. ALOT. How many times do you hear the statement I won’t own a weapon, the attacker might take it away. Having that mindset is not a liberal/conservative issue or shouldn’t be, because self preservation is the first rule of nature.
unstpabl1 wrote:
The bottomline on JewishFitnesses remark is that arming anyone, including me without the proper mindset is a waste of effort. How much of your krav training seeks to train that never die mentality. ALOT. How many times do you hear the statement I won’t own a weapon, the attacker might take it away. Having that mindset is not a liberal/conservative issue or shouldn’t be, because self preservation is the first rule of nature.
———————————During one of the gun defense Krav Seminars I have attended a stat was given. \”Only 7% of those shot die from the injury\”. Another point made, was you can still make a gun defense after getting shot, its just a lot harder.
The point I took from that was to fight no matter what the circumstances.
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jburtonpdx: \”During one of the gun defense Krav Seminars I have attended a stat was given. \”Only 7% of those shot die from the injury\”. \”
Interesting. I had not thought about that before, but I can understand it. If you get shot in the head or the heart that is likely instantly fatal. (Although, depending on the angle you can survive some head shots). Next would be a bullet that opens an artery that can kill you in seconds, but the bleading can be stopped. Being hit in the spine would be \”bad for you\” ™, but may not kill. Hits to the rest of you would slow you down but would likely not kill.
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quote \”Giant Killer\:So, when you say you flunked them, was it because they didn’t make good arguments to support their theories? Or did they make decent arguments, but you just personally thought their ideas weren’t valid? Sport causing gang rape sounds far-fetched, I have to admit, but as long as someone attempts to make good points explaining his/her position, I’m not sure he/she should be flunked. But I’m not sure what the criteria was at your university, that’s just something that came to mind.Peace to you, too! 😀
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GiantkillerFlunking the paper, not necessarily the whole class. The papers I have had people do are supposed to be research papers, citing empirical studies and data to support their ideas. So, when someone turns in something that is more or less \”I think this\” with no evidence to back it up (or completely disregarding contrary evidence) that’s bad scholarship.
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quote \”unstpabl1\:[quote=\”kravjeff
It was MaskedKat that stimulated my thinking, not the initial post. Sorry for the confusion!Hope you’re well!
: I gave up discussing politics when I realized the audience was appaulding 2 stand up comics and a chick whose claim to fame is survivior and sleeping with a second string quarterback. 😆 T[/quote]
So, I have to know… who’s the quarterback that Rosie O’Donnell slept with??!! 😆
Oh, Kravjeff, almost forgot about Milquetoast:
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quote \”KMCat\:jburtonpdx: \”During one of the gun defense Krav Seminars I have attended a stat was given. \”Only 7% of those shot die from the injury\”. \”Interesting. I had not thought about that before, but I can understand it. If you get shot in the head or the heart that is likely instantly fatal. (Although, depending on the angle you can survive some head shots). Next would be a bullet that opens an artery that can kill you in seconds, but the bleading can be stopped. Being hit in the spine would be \”bad for you\” ™, but may not kill. Hits to the rest of you would slow you down but would likely not kill.
This is interesting from the perspective of those of us (OK at least for me 😉 ) who both practice KM (or any other form of H2H combat/Self Defense) AND carry or advocate carrying firearms … I also work in a busy trauma center and see these types of injuries and their sequelae often.
As stated, we’re taught in KM, and rightly so, to continue fighting even if injured. \”If you can breathe, you can fight\” … Many people believe that firearms are a simple solution to an attack – Nothing, IMO, could be further from the truth. Sure, there are cases wherein you present the weapon and the attacker flees … WooHoo!!!! Best case scenario!! However, in ‘firearm self defense\” it is stated early and often that a single shot is usually not enough to stop a determined attacker. It is not uncommon for bad guys to fight through being shot as well, and a single shot is almost never effective unless it is to the central nervous system (brain or spine) OR it takes the fight out of the attacker (emotional shock).
Most who I’ve studied teach at least two shots, center mass (thorax/torso) and reassess the threat, while never ceasing your aim/line of fire. Others just say \”shoot ’em down!\” … Effective, but not what I’d like to try to explain in court if God forbid I ever had to draw my weapon.
This (and the other loosely related) thread has reminded me of a joke — Addresses politics, guns and pacifism … ENJOY!
Are you a Democratic, Republican or Southerner?
Here is a little test that will help you decide. The answer can be found by posing the following question:
You’re walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small children. Suddenly, an Islamic Terrorist with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, praises Allah, raises the knife and charges at you. You are carrying a Glock 40 cal and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family.
What do you do?
Democrat’s Answer:
Well, that’s not enough information to answer the question! Does the man
look poor? Or oppressed? Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack? Could we run away? What does my wife think? What about the kids? What does the law say about this situation? Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society and to my children? Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me? Should I call 9-1-1? Why is this street so deserted? We need to raise taxes, have paint and weed day and make this happier, healthier street that would discourage such behavior.Republican’s Answer:
BANG ! BANG !
Southerner’s Answer:
BANG ! BANG ! BANG !
BANG ! BANG ! BANG !
BANG ! BANG ! BANG !Click….. (Sounds of reloading)
BANG ! BANG ! BANG !
BANG ! BANG ! BANG !
BANG ! BANG ! BANG !Click. click, clickclickclickclickclick … DAMN!
Daughter: \”Nice grouping, Daddy ! Were those the Winchester Silver Tips
or Hollow Points ?Son : \”Can I shoot the next one ?
Wife: \”You Ain’t Taking That to The Taxidermist!\”
8)
😆 😆 😆
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