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True, over analyzing it can drive someone mad. But in Jeff’s scenario, the reflecting has already happened. So, Jeff, when you look back on it now, what would you have done differently? When you replay the scene in your head, can you see enough of the surroundings to know if you noticed a curb waiting to trip you should you have needed to back up quickly? Witnesses nearby enough that a shout could draw some help? Potential weapons you could use laying on the ground within reach?
I’ve had a couple situations similar to that, both times they ended up asking for money. One of the guys started making small talk, and even said \”You know I could hit you\”. He was drunk, and I played it off saying something like he didn’t want to do that because I’m such a nice guy (I had given him a couple dollars, he was wearing a military field jacket so figured he was a vet). My mistakes in those were the same thing most face I think.. I focused so intently on him, that I had no idea of my surroundings. He could have had more friends coming up from behind, there might have been an obstacle waiting to trip me, or possibly even an improvised weapon near him he could use on me.
I think my biggest flaw is my fear that I’m going to insult someone because I think they look \”suspicious\”… so they get to approach and I make no moves to maintain space. Unfortunately, the only response I currently have is to react to physical attack.
Jeff, I think you reacted very well in that scenario. You were aware of the potential threat, kept the cart between you and him, had your hand on the folder (and might have used it as a weapon or distraction). Looking right at him, showing no fear probably worked, too. If he had attacked, he would have had to get by the cart, you might have even been able to push the cart into him. Don’t know what was in the boxes or how heavy they were, but you could have picked one up and throw it, then ram the cart into him, maybe get him to fall, stomp him or just run away and call the police.
As for other scenarios, I’d like to introduce a group of them, mainly involving situations where you might need to use KM from a position other than the one we use most often in class, standing up with no obstacle in between and not carrying anything, hands next to your body, the \”neutral stance\”.
For example, if you weren’t standing, but sat on a park bench and an attacker sneaked up from behind, putting a gun to your head. You couldn’t do the regular gun defense in that case, so what would you do? I think I know the answer, but I’m still posing the question as a brain teaser. 😀
Also, what about being threatened with a gun on a stairwell? If the attacker is standing two steps above you (or even one step) the angle changes. It would be hard to hit him in the face from there, so, after the redirection, should you pin the gun up a little higher than usual, above his waist, then punch to the groin instead of the face (careful not to cross the line of fire)?
How about if he is two steps below you? Would it be possible to pin the gun to his waist from there? Would a two handed cupping technique followed by a kick to the face work better from that angle? Or could you push the gun into his face with one hand, then cup with the other and kick? Then there is the matter of keeping your balance on top of the stairs…
Similar questions could involve knife threats. Also other obstacles being in the way. What if there is a 4-5 foot wall or fence in between you and the gunman? Or you are sitting on a chair/bench and he approaches from the front. Do you redirect, then get up and pin the gun? Or would that be too dangerous? How about cupping, then kick to the groin instead? Which would work better?
Or lying down. You are asleep, wake up, there’s a guy with a gun or knife next to your bed. You are lying down and you are covered, hard to get up, no kicks are possible. What would be your best move? I actually remember a story on the news, where a guy woke up to find an intruder next to his bed, just about to stab him (turned out he had planned to kill the whole family). The victim was able to instinctively grab the attacker’s arm and pull him onto the bed (his wife was sleeping next to him, she woke up, lots of chaos). But he overpowered him and none of them was injured. Or how about that story about the intruder who slept underneath a girl’s bed for several days before he was discovered? 😯
Lots of interesting scenarios. I’m just thinking it’s not always going to be so clean, that I’m standing in a certain position and then I will be attacked. I may be sitting, lying, covered with something (such as a blanket), so good idea to think about how to defend in such a situation. Any suggestions or comments?
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GiantkillerLet me give the scenario and answer from 2 teenage girls and one 7yo.
My kids are very offensive in most defensive situations, the saying a good defense is a great offense is true in their case.
We live in South Florida, carjacking is something that does occur. My girls see it as a problem that they can help if they are trapped in the car and my wife is forced from the car.
They feel that while the carjacker is trying to get away they can make his life very difficult and his crime spree very short lived, because he is trying to hurt them and he hurt their mom.
They came to the conclusion, all on hteir own, that stabbing him on the neck with pens & pencils from either side will stop him and the car quickly. They just need to be prepared to get out after, they assume , the collision with something and the bloodspraying all over them. My 7yo said to get the gun, if applicable, and shoot him through the seat with it.
I am very glad my kids don’t really watch too many violent movies or we may have a problem.
The three of them protect each other and will stand against any odds for each other. Plus their dad is cool.
The scary part is that they have been this way for years and won’t hurt anyone unless they try to hurt one of them.
…\”Its not Iím a loose cannon Iíve been to many haunted house type places and really enjoy it but then I walk in their knowing people are going to be jumping out and those guys know better then to grab people. ..\”
Around Halloween,there is a Haunted Hayride through a corn field. Costumed characters jump out with chain-saws(no chain on it),fake axes,etc.
They’ll jump up & into the hay-wagon & right up to the riders.
In recent years ,they have had to post a notice that says anyone who hits an ‘actor’ will be prosecuted for assault.They had problems in the past with riders clocking the actors when they jump into the wagon & scare them.
The haunted hayride has happened to me and luckily he was far enough away that I couldn’t reach him in one step. He came up behind one of my kids and I was looking in another direction when she screamed. Instantly, my priority was her safety, not the ride. After a split second I realized the scenario and cooled down. Since then my kids sit back to back, withtheir heads on swivels.
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quote \”CJs Dad\:LOL I never said I was right in my actions admittedly it was a little much but that little switch in my head went off.In fact in hindsight I was probably dead wrong and over reacted.
As far as my wife, I wouldnít mess with her, sheís armed.
I don’t think you over reacted at all. Whetever his intention was he still attacked you. I did the same thing on a set one day. We were on location at a bowling alley and I was engrossed in reading this framed article on the wall. I was off by myself when this guy grabbed me from behind. Grabbing my shoulder and screamed to scare me. It worked and he was much bigger. I turned and nailed him with a right cross to the solar plexuses. He dropped and I was half way through a head stomp when i recognized him.
People scare people thinking they’ll jump back, some don’t. OOps
Besides which your guy was a moron, trying to scare you with a baby in your hands. 👿 Idiot
From my situation, the biggest thing I did wrong was not \”checking my 6.\” I was next to my car (I was actually standing with my back to it) but the point is I didn’t consciously check to see if he had any friends. I did look around when I saw him approaching me, but prilarily I think to see if it was really me he was approaching. My back was safe, but I could have been flanked. I was a little shaken for a short time, but overall think I handled it OK – My big question (to myself) was; would my physical response flow out of me, or should I have been consciously considering all possibilities …
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quote \”Giant Killer\:So, does anyone have any ideas for my scenarios?_________________
GiantkillerGEEZ GK 😯 Its like you released a bursting damn of What ifs. Yeah I spelled damn right.
😆Gun to head park bench: I’d tell him You were rich, that I only had $20 bucks, but knew where you hid the money. See if I could get a better position on the way there.
That happened in a bar I worked in one night. A guy pulled a gun on a guy who was having an affair with his wife. Choke with left arm . gun to temple in right. I ducked under the bar and got outta Dodge. The other bartender a very unathletic guy, jumped thru the waitress window into the bowling alley. That window was 5 feet high and smaller than a 27\” tv screen. As far as the customer was concerned… Well there’s one thing I learned working service jobs….The customer is usually Full of crap. Screw him 😉
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quote \”unstpabl1\:Gun to head park bench::Angle of trajectory
Off angle / control / destroy
Repeat / wash / rinse
For the unlucky bar patron and the rich guy on the park bench KM’s gun hostage defense could work wonders. unstpabl should join us and learn third party defenses, so he can save the next customer. He might leave him a generous tip in return. 😀
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Giantkillerunstpabl1,
I know where you’re coming from with the bar thing. I worked as a bartender for about 20 years (when I was much younger, supplementing my income in the Air Force). I never saw anyone pull a gun or a knife. But, I sure saw my share of fist-ta-cuffs. Had to break up a few of them. But, I never really had to fight or defend myself much, security folks were usually there in a second. I did have a irrate drunk reach over the bar and grab my shirt once. I grabbed his wrist and smashed his knuckles with the metal half of a cocktail shaker. Like you said, some customers are just full of crap. 😉Re:
quote \”BradM\:unstpabl1,
I know where you’re coming from with the bar thing. I worked as a bartender for about 20 years (when I was much younger, supplementing my income in the Air Force). I never saw anyone pull a gun or a knife. But, I sure saw my share of fist-ta-cuffs. Had to break up a few of them. But, I never really had to fight or defend myself much, security folks were usually there in a second. I did have a irrate drunk reach over the bar and grab my shirt once. I grabbed his wrist and smashed his knuckles with the metal half of a cocktail shaker. Like you said, some customers are just full of crap. 😉Brad
INSERT ALCOHOL, INSTANT AHOLE 😉
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