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Ok. as some of you may have read from my earlier posts. I am looking for something to go with Krav. It is between Muay Thai, and Kali. Muay thai is about an hour away though, and that is the only reason why I’m not sure of doing it. Kali is about 10 min.
My question. just about every school I have gone to has either said something bad about Krav, or when I tell them that I do it, they put this little dick-head sarcastic smile on there face.
The one guy was insisting that Krav was just a workout with self defense. I said to him, \”have you done it\”? obviously he said no, and I told him to come check it out before he makes assumptions. I have done it for over three years and you don’t know what your taliking about. Then I got up laughing and walked out while he was trying to make up with me.
Now for the people who look at it as just a workout. I did do Muay Thai for only about 3 weeks out west, then I had to move back east without much notice. I really liked it. But I did about 10 classes, and you want to talk about a work-out, that was tough. But every one looks at that has a very brutal martial art. It was very similar to Krav, the way they did the classes. We did about 45 min of jumping rope, kicking, punching, push-ups, etc. Then we would spar like 50%.
Now, I know we shouldnt care what people say or think. That is True. But when you really care about something, and believe in it, how does it not bother you when someone talks bad about it.
It is human nature to demean something you don’t understand, something that intimidates you, or something that you are envious of. Don’t put too much energy into it–nature of the beast.
Just because everyone is entitled to an opinion does not mean that they are correct. Unless you feel like informing them of the merits, just smile and walk away knowing that you are capable of things they are not.
I’m going to make what I imagine might be a bit of a controversial post here, but here it is anyways:
I think that it’s sort of our own fault. The way that Krav Maga is marketed will bring those comments. It is clearly and intentionally marketed largely toward females and has a large forcus on fitness. It’s definitely effective marketing, however I don’t believe that people who don’t know more about Krav would believe that it is actually much more than Tae Bo.
Now, that’s not to say that I don’t believe in Krav. I’m just saying you reap what you sew. Personally, with good instructors, I think that Krav is on the level of Muay Thai as far as difficulty, simplicity, and effectiveness. In fact, I’ve been to Muay Thai classes that would make you think that Muay Thai was weak (obviously, instructors are key). My point is, people won’t respect Krav to the same degree because of the way that it’s marketed.
Posted by wim:
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I think that it’s sort of our own fault. The way that Krav Maga is marketed will bring those comments. It is clearly and intentionally marketed largely toward females and has a large forcus on fitness\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”I’ll agree that when people talk to me about krav, Im one of those people with a smirk on my face, but this is because of exactly what wim stated.
On the old forums, I remember commenting on numerous posts about the reality of fighting. I think one of the main reasons krav gets a bad rep is due to those who do it out of spite for other sportive arts used in MMA competition (for example, I see many more traditional martial artists training in or claiming to teach krav than I do mixed/modern martial artists).
I’ve also noticed that many hate groundfighting with a passion (specifically BJJ) and brag about the effectiveness of deadly techniques as an end to all (once again, more TMA’s).
In speaking with the instructors on this forum I feel they’re teaching practical fighting skills and have no delusions of the reality of fighting (often combining effective and proven grappling arts with effective and proven striking arts). Quite honostly, many agreed with points I argued (these were not Krav Maga claims, but the claims of the practicioners).
If you train under a competent and realistic instructor, I dont see much of a problem- its not so much the techniques that are taught that makes a style good or bad but its the method they go about practicing/refining them (i.e. Japanese Ju Jitsu and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu have the same techniques, yet one is much more effective than the other due to training methods).
The marketing is really making people think that. And I think it has gone more that way from the time I started till now.
As far as any school. Yes it totally depends on the instructor. Your going to have good and bad MT schools, and good and bad KM schools. I was just saying that in general MT is very well known for it’s conditioning, Just like KM.
So I don’t think it is controversial at all what you said, I agree. It still bothers me though.Re:
Walker:
\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”I was just saying that in general MT is very well known for it’s conditioning, Just like KM. \”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”
Well, I think MT is known for the way it hardens your body (boxing gives great conditioning, as well as BJJ, wrestling, and Judo) to give/recieve blows.
The ironic thing you mentioned as well was all the conditioning that KM seems to emphasize. In any realistic fight situation, conditioning can easily be your best weapon, yet many Krav practitioners I’ve spoken with talk about ending fights quickly (lets be serious here- EVERYONE wants to do that- its not unique to a specific system).
They are unknowning working one of their best weapons, and can thank their instructors for it 😀
Well, when I said that Muay Thai is very well known for it’s conditioning, it is also because of the nature of there sport. Just like Boxing, you have to be in good shape to go on that many rounds. So that is why they jump rope, run,do heavy bag work etc.
The good thing that we have here in KM, is that there is a source for us to talk about this. Personally I would like to have classes be run a certain way. I have been in classes where we do 55 min of kicking, punching, knees, elbows,pushups, running. And then 5 min of technique.That is In an advanced class. I can understand people who don’t know how to kick, and punch, doing that, so they get the basic strikes down, but not in a class were people know how to.
Then I’ve been in a class where you get 35-45 of the basic and then 15-25 of technique, which I like. It depends on whos teaching. But can’t we get some sort of consistency. So no matter who is teachng you know that your gonna learn something, and not just do what you can do on your own at the local gym, or in your house. I f I new how to do a poll I would. So maybe someone else could do one to see if they like that idea of some consistency( dont know if I’m spelling that right, let me know about this too)
In response to WIM and his marketing primarily women comment. Here in NY they do not advertise that way at all, and if you ever took a class or two here it is a lot different then any other KM classes I have ever taken!!!! I am out numbered and have seen MANY women come and go in Krav because of it’s intense training!!!! So I would have to disagree with you. Not many of us stick with KRAV.
Just plain scared of the competition
The KM classes I attend are given in the same place as a number of other kinds of martial art classes. Our classes are always bigger and people are working much harder in them. Other martial arts don’t have the same market penetration success that Krav does, so other teachers will ofcourse say KM is no good – who wants competition in the marketplace? No one does. Every business wants to be a monopoly. Martial arts is no different.. Also a lot of people don’t know how old KM is; i.e., that it wasn’t born yesterday. But the fact that it is not a 1,000-YO martial art given the reality of today’s combat environment (guns, etc.) actually speaks well for it, IMJ. Fresh eyes were used and are still used to build up the KM curriculum.
My stock answer to anyone would be, \”Think this is for panzies? OK, come and watch a class. Maybe try one out.\” My first KM class, I was taught how to bash someone mercilessly through the groin and chest with my knee. It takes traditional martial arts years to get to that good stuff.
The two answers given here are both correct. First, people want to disparage something that is successful simply because they don’t know it themselves. Second, we have partly created the issue because of how much we market.
But guys, the issue of success breeding contempt was unavoidable. We could market ourselves using photos of training with special operations units, pictures we’ve been sent of our guys in Iraq and Afghanistan, and LE units, etc. Or hardcore mma-type pictures of ground and pound fighting. Then we’d just get accused of being wanna-bes (which is what some of our people say about others who use just those types of pictures) by people who don’t know that we really do train those units and we really do have guys who fight mma. And on top of that, we would be excluding a bunch of people who aren’t into camouflage or supertight Tapout shorts.
We market ourselves to the average person because that’s who needs what we do.
I agree showing only pictures of law enforcement or military might scare off a lot of regular people.
It’s good to market to the average person, but I think it would be good to have those average people do something in those pictures. Like doing a gun defense, kneeing an attacker etc, rather than having more artificial looking close up’s of pretty ladies in nice outfits, who deliver an elbow toward the camera or the like. The latter might give people the expression that Krav Maga classes are more like aerobics classes or Bodies In Motion type kickboxing. That’s because the people, who conduct those classes might use the same type of pictures in their advertising.
Already on it! We have had photographers in some of the classes taking action shots that we are going to incorporate into ads. That is also why, when we did the video tour of the Center, we shot footage of regular classes as well as instructors.
Re:
\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”Already on it! We have had photographers in some of the classes taking action shots that we are going to incorporate into ads. That is also why, when we did the video tour of the Center, we shot footage of regular classes as well as instructors.\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”
Any hot women with sexy abs? 😉
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