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[quote=\”CaptainObvious\”]\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”Already on it! We have had photographers in some of the classes taking action shots that we are going to incorporate into ads. That is also why, when we did the video tour of the Center, we shot footage of regular classes as well as instructors.\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”
Any hot women with sexy abs? 😉
Seriously though, Krav most likely gets included with many other reality based self defense systems (which are usually pathetic). Once again, if someone is teaching you a proven effective striking style or a proven effective grappling style, then theres not much of an argument- whats in a name eh?
But, I have seen MANY TMA’ers who, after the advent of the UFC and other mixed martial arts tournaments, were pissed at the results of their styles. Rather than accept reality, they searched for false excuses to convince themselves to keep training. They cross trained, but often did so in other ineffective styles, and only for a small amount of time. Since they couldnt hack it as martial artists, they became \”street fighters\” 😯
I am relatively new to KM. I have found it work much better for me than TMA. Being in corrections, it is better to have some no nonsense fighting skills based on instinct…
I have thought that honestly, Krav may well never be compleatly popular with regular civillians as much as military/law enforcement..The reason? Over the last 50 years, peoples minds have been brainwashed by TV and movies. To them, when they think of fighting/martial arts/self defence, they think of Traditional robes, bare feet, bowing, ancient Chinese secrets,Fancy kicks, overdramatized and nearly impossible moves, backflips and all that other junk that comes with Hollywood.
When they see a KM class, it bursts their bubble because its not what fits the stereotype that has been ingrained into their minds for years. For too long the average person has seen to many Bruce Lee/Jackie Chan/Karate Kid movies and they simply cannot accept some martial art that doesnt fit in with that. KM is straight to the point, no frills, no medeval BS, no ancient proverbs.Another problem is that so many people have a hard time believing that getting proficient with the style can come in a matter of months, not years. How is this a problem? Isnt that what people would look for in a SD style?
Well, Yes, but after years of them being told by people who have made a living out of keeping people confused and getting people wrapped up in long contracts, most karate instructors have brainwashed people into believing that the only way you can \”get good\” is to spend many years (and many thousands of dollars) studying their art. Always telling them that \”Yes, you’ll get to study this kind of self defense or that..after you move up in belt rank.\”
Well so many people get lored into this that the average person really believes it. So to come up with a system now that is relatively easy to learns and doesnt take as long to master, its hard for the average person to understand the concept.
Also I am sure Hollywood and celeberties will not make thngs much easier for us. With their long, dramatic, drawn out fight scenes.
🙄Re:
good thoughts.
I have to just say hold on a second here though. There are people who don’t like super tight tapout shorts?! That’s just wrong!
I think that appealing to the fitness and self defense types is necessary, but it’s also helpful to market to the \”tough guy\”. I do think that the marketing could stand to be a little more targetted. For instance, you could have the military Krav Maga image in some military magazine, the fitness image in some women’s health magazine, etc.
I’m glad to hear that you’re trying to get some more real world material though.
Some people who have practised traditional martial arts don’t like franchises or licensed operations for whatever reason. When I changed dojos last year, I didn’t sign up for the Krav Classes, but went with the karate instead, just because of the franchise or percieved McDojo aspect of Krav Maga.
After sitting in a few Krav Maga classes at my school I appreciate what the style has to offer. I’ll switch over to Krav Maga later this winter and take a little time off from TMA.
Fortunately my school offers both styles.
8)Yeah, you gotta love those super tight tapass shorts….! 😆
I think wim is right it could be marketed differently for different people. Sure, you want to attract girls, but you don’t want to alienate guys, who might end up thinking Krav Maga is only for the ladies.
I’ve been sold on Krav Maga for so long that I’m actually not paying that much attention to the marketing now. One thing I’ve noticed though, is that the fitness aspect of Krav seems to have become more important for the marketing over the years. At the NTC for example, when you look at the articles that are framed and hung on the walls, the early ones all talk about self-defense first and fitness only second, if at all. The newer ones tend to talk more about fitness and self-defense seems to become secondary (\”How does JLo get her tight ABS? – Krav Maga etc).
I don’t think that’s a very good trend. I think we should market to different people, but always market it as a self-defense system first, because that’s what it is. If someone’s primary goal is to tone their ABS, maybe Krav Maga isn’t their best choice.We could tell people about the possible dangers lurking in a big city, how many crimes are being committed etc, how it’s important for everyone to know how to defend themselves. Just point at the news, where you can see people being carried out on stretchers for most of the night. Yeah, it’ll be scary, but that’s the whole point of learning self-defense that you are afraid of becoming a victim of a crime and you want to know what to do in case that’ll happen.
Sure, we can talk about fitness, too, the truth is doing Krav Maga will definitly help you get in shape because the classes are very intense, but in my opinion fitness should only be secondary.
When I first checked out the center I wanted to learn street fighting. The first thing I saw when I walked by that big window was people doing shotgun drills. So I was sold immediatly. If instead I would have seen pretty girls softly hitting focus mitts or doing crunches, who knows if I would have signed up.
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Saw this post while doing some surfing on the FIGHT system. Man Does this MA sound s bit conceited. Bashing KM without checkin it out.
Posted by: Eero
The reason why people think that karate does not work as a effective way to defend yourself does not lie in the art. Incompetent teachers and foolish schools are to blamed for this. Originally Karate was a way for civilians to defend themselves against unwarranted violence, but modern sport karate has many times lost this aspect of the art. Go look for the history of the art and it becomes evident why karatekas are some times poor fighters.
It is also good to cross train with some other arts. I mix ideas and techniques from Wing Chun Gongfu and western boxing to my karate practice and the results are much better.
Kraw Maga is a foolish art in my opinion. It doesn’t cultivate the mind so many times practioners of that art are violent and selfish.
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\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”The reason why people think that karate does not work as a effective way to defend yourself does not lie in the art. Incompetent teachers and foolish schools are to blamed for this.\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”
When the style hopelessly fails everytime its put to the test and not just one or two times, thats not one or two bad instructors- thats the style
\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\” Originally Karate was a way for civilians to defend themselves against unwarranted violence\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”
And \”duck and cover\” was a way for school children to defend themselves from a nuclear blast……. doesnt mean it works
\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\” but modern sport karate has many times lost this aspect of the art. Go look for the history of the art and it becomes evident why karatekas are some times poor fighters.\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”\”
By making something a sport, you can make the fighters more combat effective- early mma events and even earlier challenge matches provide enough evidence for this
Marketing of something like krav maga can be very tricky. It all depends on what the goals and priorities of the school are. Is it to show that anyone, regardless of age or shape, can learn it relatively quickly? Or that it is an effective system for defending yourself against street crime? Or to show its historical background and military applications? It’s very hard to demonstrate more than one of these ideas in a single visual, so you really have to prioritize what it is you want to communicate, or come up with an assortment of visuals in a gallery or collage type of thing. My point is that there’s no one right way to market something, it all depends on your message.
I find the comment about not cultivating the mind very interesting. What are people’s opinions who are actually in KM about that? Do you think it systematically \”cultivates\” the mind and if so, what does it teach?
Rosie, this could be a new thread, but I’ll answer anyway. I posted to some martial arts MBs before posting here, and heard some of the same criticisms. A lot of Asian martial arts have a spiritual/mental component that I found kind of a turn-off, but their practioners feel systems that lack that angle are inferior. Having a desire to live that’s greater than the bad guy’s desire to kill you is about as spiritual as I want to get!
Yeah, pretty much every one I know in Krav is pretty violent and selfish. It’s a real problem. Why, I constantly get in fights with my classmates. I get robbed by them most weeks too. It’s unfortunate that we can’t all just get along. We could hold hands and sing and meditate on the meaning of self defense. I mean, any real martial art is really about the love and compassion. Peace be with you all, but I must go back to my cult now.
tongue-in-cheek obviously.
This topic touches on the biggest problem I has with my KM training, and why I ultimately left my then studio in favor of grappling/sportfighting.
I actually like the KM system a lot. I think it provides a great balance between self defence techniques that may very well come in handy (even though I don’t ever seem to get in situations requiring me to defend myself anymore) hard conditioning (I’m a lazy bastard, and having conditioning drills as a part of class was good for me) and solid fighting basics. There were some things that I have a problem with, I would have liked moe of an emphasis on grappling for example, but overall I like the system quite a bit.
The real problem, for me, was the kind of people that were in my class. And don’t get me wrong, they were good folks who worked hard. However, they just did not provide me with the challenge or the intensity I needed to excell. My current training partenrs are mostly \”tough guys\”, not in the sense that they have bad attitudes (quite the opposite, actually), are all young, or particularly massive, but in the snese that we really go at it at a much faster pace on a regular basis. I find that the people I train with can either push you along or hold you back. My former KM training partenrs were holding me back.
The reason I’m bringing this up in the first place is because it’s a result of the way KM is advertized. By targetting the soccer moms (and I’m not being in any way disparging here) and the average joes, the organization is sacrificing some training intensity that would have been good for their target audience and also losing people like myself who want too turn it up a notch or two.
That’s interesting, that’s exactly what I’m worrying about, that if we place too much emphasis on Krav Maga \”getting you in shape\”, we end up attracting some average people to train, but we also end up driving the very people away, who truly care about the self-defense and fighting system that Krav Maga really is. Then we’ll end up catering more and more to those (fitness) people by providing \”workouts\” rather then real self-defense training. As a result, people who want to learn fighting and self-defense might end up leaving, frustrated by too much \”workouts\”, or they don’t even sign up in the first place, because from the advertising they assume that Krav Maga isn’t a real fighting or self-defense system and is mostly about fitness.
That would be a great loss, because from your students you’re going to get your future instructors. I always wonder what attracted John or Darren or any of the other long time instructors to Krav Maga. I’m sure it wasn’t the promise of a toned body and killer abs. So then I’m thinking, what if they had advertised Krav Maga back then then way they do now? Maybe none of those instructors, who I’m sure were looking for a fighting system not a fitness system, would have started to train in Krav Maga. Even worse, what if Darren wouldn’t have started to train, then there wouldn’t be Krav Maga in the United States!
So, although I understand that you want to make a self-defense system accessible to everybody, I also think you shouldn’t become so eager to attract the \”average person\” that you end up driving truly dedicated practitioners away. I think it’s good to have a mix. That’s why we have different levels. At the NTC in LA it’s good, because there are many different classes, also a very good ground fighting class and some long time, experienced instructors. Around the country I’m not sure, I haven’t attended classes anywhere else, but from what I know, most of the instructors have not been with Krav Maga for very long and might have much smaller martial arts studios where they only teach it once or twice a week, so you don’t have as much of a choice about which class you are going to attend.
I teach at a Krav only school. I’ve been there for over three years now and I started training to get thin, which I did. I started phase training last year after advancing to level four and taking upward of eight classes a week.
Fitness does not attract only people that can’t hang with you big boys. It brings in people who may have always wanted to study self defense but were intimidated. Believe me, though I started for body reasons, I run with the big dogs.
Talking about training partners holding you back is not only pompus but it states that you yourself may not be the good training partner you think you are. Helping someone else who truely wants to learn and get it right teaches me more about the moves then training in a class ever did. My understanding of Krav has deepened so much from training those that you wish to exclude.
I conceed that sometimes others do not attack with enough force. Chokes are not hard enough, punches are not fast enough but where one is soft another may come hard. Your response should mirror that. If someone attacks slowly, then you should defend and counter painfully slow and perfect.
I find students who act to me like the people in class are below them irritating to say the least. I have a guy in my classes that has trained all his life. He is a talented fighter and deadly on the ground. Yet he looks at every training session as an opportunity to perfect his skills and blames nothing on those around him. He attends level one up to level four classes.
My favorite thing, before I became an instructor, was when we got these tough guys who completely misjudged me. \”She’s little and blonde, no problem.\” They’d snicker when we squared up. Underestimating your enemy is one of the worst things you can do.
I know you guys mean well, but you’re missing the point of self defense. It is for everyone. Unlike sport fighting. If you find the people in your classes below your skill set, find a partner and make a point to have them come the same days as you do. Or you can come down to my gym and I’ll run you through the paces = )
chris
runt of the litterJust to clarify, I never said that I find certain classmates \”beneath me\” or don’t want to work with someone. I applaud anyone, who makes a serious effort to learn self-defense and fighting and have no problem working with people, who may be less advanced than I am.
I’m just worried that, due to the way Krav Maga is advertised, often as a way to \”get in shape\” rather than as a self-defense program, it might attract people, whose goal it is to get in shape only and not to seriously learn self-defense. Soon, those people might become the majority of students and then, little by little, we might end up changing our classes to please them. Meaning less instruction and more cardio type exercises, such as doing the same punch and kick combinations over and over without trying to improve skills. We even had a bit of an aerobics phase at the NTC, where for a while we did nothing but the Bas combination in every class with almost no technique anymore. Thank God that phase seems to be over and we do a good mix of combatives and technique at the moment, but due to too many fitness people coming in that may change again.
You can even hear the change in the locker rooms. Some years ago, they were talking about the techniques they lerned. Now they mostly talk about cardio stuff.
Sounds like you are a \”convert\”,who came for the fitness, but stayed for the fighting. That’s great, I applaud you. And I think that’s the way it should be. That people, who come in for fitness adapt to Krav Maga the fighting system and then get both fitness and self-defense. However, some fitness people may want the self-defense system to adapt to them rather than the other way around and the result are more cardio oriented classes that might cheat the people, who came in for self-defense right from the start.
Wow, that just really surprises me that the NTC would go through a stage like that. We have seperate fitness classes, that, as of late, we are changing the flavor of into more combative classes and basic training to get people ready for Krav.
I think the way Krav is taught and trained in is enough to get people in shape, I myself lost forty pounds at my school. I know we have people who just want to be in shape, but they don’t sign up for Krav, they sign up for cardio. We keep the programs seperate except for the fact that if you join Krav you can take fitness classes. Not the other way around. The only thing we did to modify the classes because of student concern was seperating level one from level two and three for the warm up (we use to do a warm up with all then seperate, yes, three classes at the same time). It allows us to be harder on the higher levels and let level one warm up with slightly simpler things.
But we all have to understand that the beast must be fed, and whether it’s eating people who want to get in shape or people who what to learn self defense, in the end, the only way to survive is to continue eating. It’s a business. We’re just lucky we like to do it.
Make sure sure your voices are heard, in class and outside class. Instuctors do listen, owners should too.
And since this is a thread on Krav bashing, I’ve not heard much. But my attention span is incredibly short and I tend to ramble. My gym’s closed for ten days and I’m already jonesing.
chris
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