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Re: Why call It NE regional Training center, Why call it KM at all??
quote Ken B.:Tony,
Yes, Steve Spoth “Mr. Spoth” is quite a con man. I was one of his original 9 students who started with him just as he was first getting certified to teach originally. Just two weeks after signing on for the 3rd time for an extended 18 month contract and paying up front, he made drastic changes to the krav maga program. He did not tell me at the time of my contract signing of these upcoming changes. At times the new curriculum of his had little or nothing to do with Krav Maga, and he began wearing a Black belt to class and referring to himself as a black belt in Krav Maga, yet, he is only listed as a brown belt in the roster in LA. A phone call to the krav national training center at 1-800-kravmaga can verify this. This is deceptive business practices, lying to your clients when they outright ask you if you are a black or brown belt. When asked for a refund or even credit, Steve would not give me a credit or refund and only referred to as “this is for the best interests of all students”. I left shortly afterwards, so I cannot see how this was in anyones best interests.
I agree with you 100% on what all of your message read. The old, and real Krav Maga at the training edge is long gone, replaced by a watered-down hybrid style with students that have no fighting spirit and cannot even hold a kicking shield/tombstone pad without it flying out of their hands when struck with full force. When new students sign up they are being duped into thinking they are taking Krav Maga, even though they are only getting a portion of it and definetly not at the quality level that it should be taught at.
Most of Steve’s original team of instructors are long gone, most of them left on their own at the time of or shortly after these drastic changes. When a business or school has almost all of their staff up and leave at nealy the same time, it shows a pattern of internal problems. This morning, I noticed the Krav Maga NTC removed the Training Edge from their list of affiliated schools. Yes, Tony you are right, they should not let these deceptive practices continue and removing their name from the listing of “official” krav maga schools is long overdue. Only schools who meet the strict requirements of the NTC should be listed on this page, not any school that modifies their curriculum to the point where it should not have been called Krav Maga.Ken B.
Thats funny, I also heard that said..”It would be in the students best interests” It amazes me how many people were duped by that little lie, myself included.
You renew a contract thinking KM, then one day and literally overnight bam, your stuck there doing Tai Boxing!!?? THATS EFFED UP. I can’t beleive (or actually I can) that you didn’t get your money back from Steve. When that 1st day hit that Steve altered the KM system in BUffalo, all the renewed contracts should have been null and void.
Re: Why call It NE regional Training center, Why call it KM at all??
After reading all the posts in this thread, I cant decide whether TONY needs a tissue box more than he does a violin…its a tough choice
Before I go into my thoughts, I should tell everyone here that I go to the Training Edge, and Steve Spoth is my instructor. Anyone who’s trained with him knows that he is a great instructor, and is also very impressive with his techniques.
I am also a good friend of Ken B (was that no fighting spirit a shot at me ??;):), so I dont want to discredit my friend in this whole matter, but here is my take-
We are trained in Krav Maga and we also learn Thai kickboxing as a compliment to the KM….whats wrong with that ?? Last time I checked, KM included elbows, kicks, and knees, so wouldnt they compliment each other fairly well ?? I see other KM schools also teach Muay Thai, so what Steve is doing isnt far out of the realm of what others are doing as well. TONY, does that make sense to you ??
We are also trained in HaganaH, another Israeli system founded by Mike Lee Kanarek, who is a former IDF soldier (he was in the Israeli Special Forces, but I dont know what his exact title was, so I wont guess at it, and be corrected later). I’ve been in boxing gyms all my life, and met and trained with many professional fighters, as well as being trained by professional trainers, and I’ve also trained in Kenpo and Ninjitsu, and let me tell you, Mike Lee Kanarek is one of the baddest dudes I’ve ever met, plain and simple !! Its an honor to be able to train and learn from someone who fought against Hezbollah, and has used his KM training in real life situations. Just for the record, Steve Spoth is a Black Belt in HaganaH, and I’m 100 percent sure that the testing for that Black Belt was just as hard, if not harder than the testing LA does for its Black belts.
I have nothing against LA, or the rules that they make out there (if I ever had the chance to meet Darren, I would definitely enjoy the opportunity), but lets be frank here….do you think that Eyal or Itay Gil believe that LA is the be all end all of KM, like TONY the tool believes ?? Nevermind the tissuebox and violin, just buy a plane ticket to Los Angeles.
About the KM that we learn at the Training Edge- its all the techniques that are in Darren’s book (I have the book, and refer to it regularly), and the intensity of the classes is great. I like to think of myself as someone in pretty decent shape, between KM, Crossfit (a shoutout to the guy who got me hooked- Garddawg !!), and soccer, the workouts we do knock the **** out of me !!
One last word for TONY, if you ever decide to come back, I’ll personally hold the pads for you
Re: Why call It NE regional Training center, Why call it KM at all??
Vinni,
Believe me, that was no personal shot at you about holding the pads. You are probably one of the only few there with a real warrior spirit.Ken B.
Re: Why call It NE regional Training center, Why call it KM at all??
Originally Posted by Vinman
After reading all the posts in this thread, I cant decide whether TONY needs a tissue box more than he does a violin…its a tough choiceBefore I go into my thoughts, I should tell everyone here that I go to the Training Edge, and Steve Spoth is my instructor. Anyone who’s trained with him knows that he is a great instructor, and is also very impressive with his techniques.
I am also a good friend of Ken B (was that no fighting spirit a shot at me ??;):), so I dont want to discredit my friend in this whole matter, but here is my take-
We are trained in Krav Maga and we also learn Thai kickboxing as a compliment to the KM….whats wrong with that ?? Last time I checked, KM included elbows, kicks, and knees, so wouldnt they compliment each other fairly well ?? I see other KM schools also teach Muay Thai, so what Steve is doing isnt far out of the realm of what others are doing as well. TONY, does that make sense to you ??
We are also trained in HaganaH, another Israeli system founded by Mike Lee Kanarek, who is a former IDF soldier (he was in the Israeli Special Forces, but I dont know what his exact title was, so I wont guess at it, and be corrected later). I’ve been in boxing gyms all my life, and met and trained with many professional fighters, as well as being trained by professional trainers, and I’ve also trained in Kenpo and Ninjitsu, and let me tell you, Mike Lee Kanarek is one of the baddest dudes I’ve ever met, plain and simple !! Its an honor to be able to train and learn from someone who fought against Hezbollah, and has used his KM training in real life situations. Just for the record, Steve Spoth is a Black Belt in HaganaH, and I’m 100 percent sure that the testing for that Black Belt was just as hard, if not harder than the testing LA does for its Black belts.
I have nothing against LA, or the rules that they make out there (if I ever had the chance to meet Darren, I would definitely enjoy the opportunity), but lets be frank here….do you think that Eyal or Itay Gil believe that LA is the be all end all of KM, like TONY the tool believes ?? Nevermind the tissuebox and violin, just buy a plane ticket to Los Angeles.
About the KM that we learn at the Training Edge- its all the techniques that are in Darren’s book (I have the book, and refer to it regularly), and the intensity of the classes is great. I like to think of myself as someone in pretty decent shape, between KM, Crossfit (a shoutout to the guy who got me hooked- Garddawg !!), and soccer, the workouts we do knock the **** out of me !!
One last word for TONY, if you ever decide to come back, I’ll personally hold the pads for you
After reading all of the posts on this thread, I felt the need to say a few things!! First of all, I want to say, Tony…..Everything you have said is 100% accurate in regards to the Training Edge and the way Krav Maga is being taught. Props to you bro!! I was a student there for over 6 years, and over those 6 years there has been MANY changes. Not only has the curriculum changed drastically and the intensity is non-existent, but the instructors over the last few years are a JOKE! What I mean by this is, Steve advances students quickly to an instructor level…. and the joke is they often teach the curriculum inaccurately. Probably because they have not been learning the techniques long enough nor with precision to be at a mastery level needed to teach. Nor have they gone through the gruling 6-8 hr intense non-stop testing where both your emotions and physical abilities get tested to the max. When you have students who often correct the instructor or crack jokes about the instructor in class…that in itself makes the school look bad! Tony…aint that the truth?
On top of that, it is reqired that all instructors there tie in a 5 min lecture near the end of class which often preaches about religion (not always directly, but is tied in in some way). Last time I checked, a martial arts school is not the place to preach religion, and is often very offensive to some people including myself. In addition, people that attend the Training Edge pay a pretty price for their tuition to learn the martial art, not to be a follower of Steve’s religion. The class isn’t half as bad as the amount of preaching that goes on in his CIT classes for the instructors. In my time and money spent at the Training Edge, I was falsefully led to believe that the Krav Maga curriculum was going to continue to be intense and even better than ever before….that’s a huge joke. I challenge anyone to go visit this facility and see what a joke it really is. Check out the students who are in the upper belted classes that he calls masters, take a look at their belt and see the lack of intensity, poor technique etc that they perform at. Trust me, it’s not their fault, it’s just the way the watered down curriculum is, and like Tony said, 99.9% of the students pass their belt tests. All they have to do is show up! When I first started, if Steve yelled out a technique during the original 6 hr tests, you needed to know it and perform it with accuracy or you failed. That is the way it should be. If I wanted to learn a half a** martial arts system I would attend a local gym that has Joe Shmo teaching it…..it would only cost a quarter of what Steve charges….Get my point??
As for Vinny…..Really???….who is the tool here? It’s a shame you took what Tony had to say as a personal attack on you and your manliness. You CLEARLY missed his point, probably because you were way too busy gloating about yourself and your background in Martial arts. I have seen you at the Edge…..your not the tough guy you claim to be. Not to mention, a true martial artist is HUMBLE and doesn’t play the whose di** is larger contest….so chill out bro…”DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO YOU?” Have you asked Steve what your belt is in bro? Krav Maga? MMA? Maybe you should cause that’s a joke too. With the experience you claim to have there is NO WAY if you were under good training by “real” blackbelt instructors and good schools would you continue to stay at the Edge…but it is very possible that you are brainwashed too. Good Luck to you bro! Tony hope all is well!!
Re: Why call It NE regional Training center, Why call it KM at all??
Originally Posted by Vinman
After reading all the posts in this thread, I cant decide whether TONY needs a tissue box more than he does a violin…its a tough choiceBefore I go into my thoughts, I should tell everyone here that I go to the Training Edge, and Steve Spoth is my instructor. Anyone who’s trained with him knows that he is a great instructor, and is also very impressive with his techniques.
I am also a good friend of Ken B (was that no fighting spirit a shot at me ??;):), so I dont want to discredit my friend in this whole matter, but here is my take-
We are trained in Krav Maga and we also learn Thai kickboxing as a compliment to the KM….whats wrong with that ?? Last time I checked, KM included elbows, kicks, and knees, so wouldnt they compliment each other fairly well ?? I see other KM schools also teach Muay Thai, so what Steve is doing isnt far out of the realm of what others are doing as well. TONY, does that make sense to you ??
We are also trained in HaganaH, another Israeli system founded by Mike Lee Kanarek, who is a former IDF soldier (he was in the Israeli Special Forces, but I dont know what his exact title was, so I wont guess at it, and be corrected later). I’ve been in boxing gyms all my life, and met and trained with many professional fighters, as well as being trained by professional trainers, and I’ve also trained in Kenpo and Ninjitsu, and let me tell you, Mike Lee Kanarek is one of the baddest dudes I’ve ever met, plain and simple !! Its an honor to be able to train and learn from someone who fought against Hezbollah, and has used his KM training in real life situations. Just for the record, Steve Spoth is a Black Belt in HaganaH, and I’m 100 percent sure that the testing for that Black Belt was just as hard, if not harder than the testing LA does for its Black belts.
I have nothing against LA, or the rules that they make out there (if I ever had the chance to meet Darren, I would definitely enjoy the opportunity), but lets be frank here….do you think that Eyal or Itay Gil believe that LA is the be all end all of KM, like TONY the tool believes ?? Nevermind the tissuebox and violin, just buy a plane ticket to Los Angeles.
About the KM that we learn at the Training Edge- its all the techniques that are in Darren’s book (I have the book, and refer to it regularly), and the intensity of the classes is great. I like to think of myself as someone in pretty decent shape, between KM, Crossfit (a shoutout to the guy who got me hooked- Garddawg !!), and soccer, the workouts we do knock the **** out of me !!
One last word for TONY, if you ever decide to come back, I’ll personally hold the pads for you
After reading all of the posts on this thread, I felt the need to say a few things!! First of all, I want to say, Tony…..Everything you have said is 100% accurate in regards to the Training Edge and the way Krav Maga is being taught. Props to you bro!! I was a student there for over 6 years, and over those 6 years there has been MANY changes. Not only has the curriculum changed drastically and the intensity is non-existent, but the instructors over the last few years are a JOKE! What I mean by this is, Steve advances students quickly to an instructor level…. and the joke is they often teach the curriculum inaccurately. Probably because they have not been learning the techniques long enough nor with precision to be at a mastery level needed to teach. Nor have they gone through the gruling 6-8 hr intense non-stop testing where both your emotions and physical abilities get tested to the max. When you have students who often correct the instructor or crack jokes about the instructor in class…that in itself makes the school look bad! Tony…aint that the truth?
On top of that, it is reqired that all instructors there tie in a 5 min lecture near the end of class which often preaches about religion (not always directly, but is tied in in some way). Last time I checked, a martial arts school is not the place to preach religion, and is often very offensive to some people including myself. In addition, people that attend the Training Edge pay a pretty price for their tuition to learn the martial art, not to be a follower of Steve’s religion. The class isn’t half as bad as the amount of preaching that goes on in his CIT classes for the instructors. In my time and money spent at the Training Edge, I was falsefully led to believe that the Krav Maga curriculum was going to continue to be intense and even better than ever before….that’s a huge joke. I challenge anyone to go visit this facility and see what a joke it really is. Check out the students who are in the upper belted classes that he calls masters, take a look at their belt and see the lack of intensity, poor technique etc that they perform at. Trust me, it’s not their fault, it’s just the way the watered down curriculum is, and like Tony said, 99.9% of the students pass their belt tests. All they have to do is show up! When I first started, if Steve yelled out a technique during the original 6 hr tests, you needed to know it and perform it with accuracy or you failed. That is the way it should be. If I wanted to learn a half a** martial arts system I would attend a local gym that has Joe Shmo teaching it…..it would only cost a quarter of what Steve charges….Get my point??
As for Vinny…..Really???….who is the tool here? It’s a shame you took what Tony had to say as a personal attack on you and your manliness. You CLEARLY missed his point, probably because you were way too busy gloating about yourself and your background in Martial arts. I have seen you at the Edge…..your not the tough guy you claim to be. Not to mention, a true martial artist is HUMBLE and doesn’t play the whose di** is larger contest….so chill out bro…”DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO YOU?” Have you asked Steve what your belt is in bro? Krav Maga? MMA? Maybe you should cause that’s a joke too. With the experience you claim to have there is NO WAY if you were under good training by “real” blackbelt instructors and good schools would you continue to stay at the Edge…but it is very possible that you are brainwashed too. Good Luck to you bro! Tony hope all is well!!
Re: Why call It NE regional Training center, Why call it KM at all??
quote J Wo Man:Originally Posted by Vinman
After reading all the posts in this thread, I cant decide whether TONY needs a tissue box more than he does a violin…its a tough choiceBefore I go into my thoughts, I should tell everyone here that I go to the Training Edge, and Steve Spoth is my instructor. Anyone who’s trained with him knows that he is a great instructor, and is also very impressive with his techniques.
I am also a good friend of Ken B (was that no fighting spirit a shot at me ??;):), so I dont want to discredit my friend in this whole matter, but here is my take-
We are trained in Krav Maga and we also learn Thai kickboxing as a compliment to the KM….whats wrong with that ?? Last time I checked, KM included elbows, kicks, and knees, so wouldnt they compliment each other fairly well ?? I see other KM schools also teach Muay Thai, so what Steve is doing isnt far out of the realm of what others are doing as well. TONY, does that make sense to you ??
We are also trained in HaganaH, another Israeli system founded by Mike Lee Kanarek, who is a former IDF soldier (he was in the Israeli Special Forces, but I dont know what his exact title was, so I wont guess at it, and be corrected later). I’ve been in boxing gyms all my life, and met and trained with many professional fighters, as well as being trained by professional trainers, and I’ve also trained in Kenpo and Ninjitsu, and let me tell you, Mike Lee Kanarek is one of the baddest dudes I’ve ever met, plain and simple !! Its an honor to be able to train and learn from someone who fought against Hezbollah, and has used his KM training in real life situations. Just for the record, Steve Spoth is a Black Belt in HaganaH, and I’m 100 percent sure that the testing for that Black Belt was just as hard, if not harder than the testing LA does for its Black belts.
I have nothing against LA, or the rules that they make out there (if I ever had the chance to meet Darren, I would definitely enjoy the opportunity), but lets be frank here….do you think that Eyal or Itay Gil believe that LA is the be all end all of KM, like TONY the tool believes ?? Nevermind the tissuebox and violin, just buy a plane ticket to Los Angeles.
About the KM that we learn at the Training Edge- its all the techniques that are in Darren’s book (I have the book, and refer to it regularly), and the intensity of the classes is great. I like to think of myself as someone in pretty decent shape, between KM, Crossfit (a shoutout to the guy who got me hooked- Garddawg !!), and soccer, the workouts we do knock the **** out of me !!
One last word for TONY, if you ever decide to come back, I’ll personally hold the pads for you
After reading all of the posts on this thread, I felt the need to say a few things!! First of all, I want to say, Tony…..Everything you have said is 100% accurate in regards to the Training Edge and the way Krav Maga is being taught. Props to you bro!! I was a student there for over 6 years, and over those 6 years there has been MANY changes. Not only has the curriculum changed drastically and the intensity is non-existent, but the instructors over the last few years are a JOKE! What I mean by this is, Steve advances students quickly to an instructor level…. and the joke is they often teach the curriculum inaccurately. Probably because they have not been learning the techniques long enough nor with precision to be at a mastery level needed to teach. Nor have they gone through the gruling 6-8 hr intense non-stop testing where both your emotions and physical abilities get tested to the max. When you have students who often correct the instructor or crack jokes about the instructor in class…that in itself makes the school look bad! Tony…aint that the truth?
On top of that, it is reqired that all instructors there tie in a 5 min lecture near the end of class which often preaches about religion (not always directly, but is tied in in some way). Last time I checked, a martial arts school is not the place to preach religion, and is often very offensive to some people including myself. In addition, people that attend the Training Edge pay a pretty price for their tuition to learn the martial art, not to be a follower of Steve’s religion. The class isn’t half as bad as the amount of preaching that goes on in his CIT classes for the instructors. In my time and money spent at the Training Edge, I was falsefully led to believe that the Krav Maga curriculum was going to continue to be intense and even better than ever before….that’s a huge joke. I challenge anyone to go visit this facility and see what a joke it really is. Check out the students who are in the upper belted classes that he calls masters, take a look at their belt and see the lack of intensity, poor technique etc that they perform at. Trust me, it’s not their fault, it’s just the way the watered down curriculum is, and like Tony said, 99.9% of the students pass their belt tests. All they have to do is show up! When I first started, if Steve yelled out a technique during the original 6 hr tests, you needed to know it and perform it with accuracy or you failed. That is the way it should be. If I wanted to learn a half a** martial arts system I would attend a local gym that has Joe Shmo teaching it…..it would only cost a quarter of what Steve charges….Get my point??
As for Vinny…..Really???….who is the tool here? It’s a shame you took what Tony had to say as a personal attack on you and your manliness. You CLEARLY missed his point, probably because you were way too busy gloating about yourself and your background in Martial arts. I have seen you at the Edge…..your not the tough guy you claim to be. Not to mention, a true martial artist is HUMBLE and doesn’t play the whose di** is larger contest….so chill out bro…”DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO YOU?” Have you asked Steve what your belt is in bro? Krav Maga? MMA? Maybe you should cause that’s a joke too. With the experience you claim to have there is NO WAY if you were under good training by “real” blackbelt instructors and good schools would you continue to stay at the Edge…but it is very possible that you are brainwashed too. Good Luck to you bro! Tony hope all is well!!It takes a pretty big man to talk sh!t on an internet forum, and not leave a name to who you are. I never gloated about my background, and if you doubt my abilities TOUGH GUY, name the time and place, and we could do a few rounds of sparring, and I’ll gladly wipe the floor with your sorry ass !!
Re: Why call It NE regional Training center, Why call it KM at all??
Take it outside after school… grow up!
Re: Why call It NE regional Training center, Why call it KM at all??
Absolutely, what CJ’s Dad said. Personal attacks do NOTHING. If the school isn’t teaching KM as it should be taught, then by all means let folks know.
Re: Why call It NE regional Training center, Why call it KM at all??
I believe that the issue with the regional training center has been resolved. I uderstand the frustration on both sides, however what is done is now done. I do appreciate everyone’s feedback about schools. We enjoying hearing the good more than the bad however, but KMW has many locations and they strive to ensure all certified instructors meet a specific criteria at the time of certification.
What they cannot do is go to each school and check up on them. Honestly I think they would not want to blur the line and say what is and what is not appropriate with regards to some of the issues mentioned, ie religion, prices… etc. How quality control is watched is through feedback from you guys. But when it digresses, people stop listening and your message gets lost and nobody benefits from either sides experiances.
For example, the woman teaching ballet at my health club has a religious outlook in her classes and teaching methods. Some people like it, others do not. I would imagine they would go elsewhere if it is offensive. Teaching it is a personal choice and not for me to say he can or cannot do that in his business.
But keep in mind “martial arts” in a traditional sense has a beginning steeped in religion. From Buddhism to Taoism, religion has played a role in a tradional system. It sounds as though this instructor has taken KM and combined it with his more traditonal systems. That being said Krav Maga is not a traditional system.
But to train with him is a personal choice. I believe that the goal has been achieved, which was to bring light to a problem with a regional training center and the quality of Krav Maga that is being taught…
Re: Why call It NE regional Training center, Why call it KM at all??
well, its nice to see that my post to some anonymous idiot, who thinks he knows me, gets deleted because I put a sparring challenge out there to him…nice job mods !!
I will only comment further on the “religious” message. I am Roman Catholic, and I think my instructor is Christian (I dont even really know, tbh), and I never got any “religious” messages out of his lectures, what he talks about most is self-belief and positive thinking. NEVER has God even been mentioned in any of the lectures.
I dont like ppl forcing their religion on me, either
Re: Why call It NE regional Training center, Why call it KM at all??
quote Vinman:well, its nice to see that my post to some anonymous idiot, who thinks he knows me, gets deleted because I put a sparring challenge out there to him…nice job mods !!seriously? you really want to go there with me??
Re: Why call It NE regional Training center, Why call it KM at all??
A sparring challenge over the internet? You have got to be kidding me. That’s the kind of nonsense that cheapens the entire KM Forum community. What’s next? My Dad can beat up your Dad? You have just undermined every one of your previous posts. Credibility and respect on any internet forum are gained through thoughtful debate, clear articulation of position, and sound advice. Sparring challenges don’t fit into any of those. The Mod did the right thing. Although, if it really bothers you, you could always show up to Sherman Oaks and issue a “sparing challenge” to him….
Re: Why call It NE regional Training center, Why call it KM at all??
quote Vinman:well, its nice to see that my post to some anonymous idiot, who thinks he knows me, gets deleted because I put a sparring challenge out there to him…nice job mods !!I will only comment further on the “religious” message. I am Roman Catholic, and I think my instructor is Christian (I dont even really know, tbh), and I never got any “religious” messages out of his lectures, what he talks about most is self-belief and positive thinking. NEVER has God even been mentioned in any of the lectures.
I dont like ppl forcing their religion on me, either
Wow.
First off, yes Mod- great job. I appreciate that they try to keep the forums professional and productive when we get overly emotional. You are obviously passionate about this issue, but keep the challenges to butt kicking in check.
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